Existing Users: Because of an update to the forum software you will need to reset your password. Please use the "Forgot?" link on the sign in form to do so. If that doesn't work, send me an email at feedback@forzaminardi.com and I'll sort you out!

Stoddart ups the ante ?????

From the Autosport website.....

"Minardi set for Melbourne showdown

Minardi boss Paul Stoddart looks set to be heading for a major showdown with the sport's governing body on his home turf at the Australian Grand Prix that could result in the controversial decision to see his cars barred from taking part in the event, autosport.com has learned. It is a situation that would cause massive uproar among his local media and fan base.

The Melbourne-born team owner has made no secret of the fact that he wants to use his 2004 car for the first three races of the year, as the final touches are put to his 2005 machine. He has been canvassing for the approval of fellow teams and FIA president Max Mosley since the end of last season to be allowed to race the cars.

But in the wake of Stoddart becoming a champion for the drive to cut costs and improve the sport, and effectively act as a spokesman for the non-Ferrari teams in their recent disputes with the FIA, he now almost certainly finds himself in a difficult political situation.

Speaking to autosport.com he said: “All of the teams with the exception of Ferrari have supported us. We believe the cars will be running to legal regulations. If Ferrari and the FIA wish to make an issue of this then it is up to them.”

In fact, the argument now appears to revolve not around the difficulties Stoddart has found in getting his 2005 machines ready, because of the late confirmation of this year's technical rules, but actually over whether the new regulations introduced this year are legal.

This means Stoddart is convinced his 2004-spec cars, which have been modified to fall in line with improved safety standards, are actually fully legal because the 2005 regulations themselves are not.

That viewpoint is dismissed by Mosley himself, who has made it clear that unless Stoddart wins the support of every other team on the grid to be allowed to run the 2004 machines, then the PS04Bs will simply fail scrutineering and not be allowed to take part in the Australian Grand Prix.

Such unanimous support has not been forthcoming because although it is understood that eight teams have agreed for Stoddart's plan, Ferrari is believed to have not given its approval. A Ferrari spokesman would not comment about the team's feelings on the matter. He told autosport.com: “We do not have an official position on it.”

Mosley himself has said that there is the possibility of the cars being allowed to run, but when asked whether he would sanction the use of the cars in Melbourne if Ferrari had not joined the other teams in supporting Stoddart's plans, he said: “It would not even get to that stage.

“If there was no prior agreement and he presented to us the 2004 car, that would be illegal under the current regulations. So the scrutineers would not put a sticker on it and it would never go out of the pit lane.”

Mosley went to claim that Stoddart's view on the state of the 2005 regulations was incorrect in his opinion. He said: “He think the changes for 2005 are not in accordance with the Concorde Agreement, so he has to explain why he and his representatives have voted for every single one of them in every single instance of the FIA when they have been discussed. It is a little bit difficult to understand; they voted for them in the TWG, he also voted for them in the famous fax vote but changed his vote…”

Stoddart himself, however, has disputed Mosley's viewpoint about the 2005 regulations – insisting that he had not supported them and claiming that legally he is correct to present his 2004 cars for scrutineering in Melbourne.

He claims that if the matter reaches a head in Melbourne and his cars fail scrutineering, then he will attempt to race under protest. “We say the cars do comply and if the scrutineers say no then we would protest, and I would be surprised if we were not allowed to race under protest.”

Mosley has not, however, completely ruled out the possibility of Minardi being given the green light to race – but only with the support of all its rival teams.

“If all the teams agree that somebody runs a car outside the regulations and we are satisfied there is no safety implication, then I could imagine that might be allowed,” he said. “But that hasn't arisen yet.

“Of course, a lot of these regulations were for safety but against that, talking about the speeds involved, Minardi is probably less dramatic than some of the other teams.”

Speaking about the impact of such a bombshell in Melbourne, where Stoddart is known to attract widespread support among the fans and media, Mosley was dismissive.

“It wouldn't bother me in the slightest, it really wouldn't,” he said. “If everything is done as it should be done, then those are the rules. He would then have to go to a judge and say: ‘would you interfere with the sport, over-rule the governing body and allow me to run with a car that complies to regulations that none of the cars present comply with'.

“Most people's reactions will be, ‘what on earth does he think he is doing?' I think it just makes a lot of publicity for the race.” "

© Autosport.com 2003


«1

Comments

  • Interesting eh!
  • Dangerous waters I fear. Allowing one team to run an "illega"l car sets a precedent.
  • What makes the PS04B with updated aerospecs illegal compared with the new rules? The diffuser is still the same as 2004? I mean Jordan is doing the same, updating their 2004 car,why is that car legal? I don't get it.

    I think Toit willn't support it, especially after the recent 45 pageletter and all the accusations from PS against Toit.
  • But in the wake of Stoddart becoming a champion for the drive to cut costs and improve the sport, and effectively act as a spokesman for the non-TOIT teams in their recent disputes with the FIA, he now almost certainly finds himself in a difficult political situation.
    Another way someone opens their mouth and not thinks of the consequences perhaps? Surely not!!!

    Anyway if this is still the case if I were Mr Stoddart I would'nt even bother loading the plane and going to Melbourne as it costs a shitload of money to do just that for the possibility that the team may not be able to run.......
  • Rules aare rules PS - you agreed to them when you joined the sport so just gut it out.

    Honor is more important than points.
  • What makes the PS04B with updated aerospecs illegal compared with the new rules?
    Who said he means the updated PS04b ? Whst he is saying is that the new 2005 regulations are not legal. Meaning, that the 2004 regulations are...legal. Therefore, the entire 2004 car is legal. So, he wants to race the old 2004 car. Not the updated version according to the 2005 rules. That's what I make of it. But they won't let it happen.

    lock
  • I don't get it.

    Running the PS04B isn't fair to anyone. How can the other teams have agreed?

    What's really behind all this?
  • [quote]What makes the PS04B with updated aerospecs illegal compared with the new rules?
    Who said he means the updated PS04b ? Whst he is saying is that the new 2005 regulations are not legal. Meaning, that the 2004 regulations are...legal. Therefore, the entire 2004 car is legal. So, he wants to race the old 2004 car. Not the updated version according to the 2005 rules. That's what I make of it. But they won't let it happen.

    lock
    [/quote]

    Why was he busy testing the 2005 spec PS04 in the first place then?
  • Maybe he will present the 2004-spec cars and try to get themthrough scrutineering.
    If they don't the mechanics can still put on the 2005-spec wings !!!!

    But, if the car is to be found illegal, I suppose Minardi won't race untill Imola when the PS05 is introduced ?!?!
    So, what about the rule that you have to participate in EVERY event, facing exclusion from the WCC if you don't ?????
  • Any word on whether the crash structures on the 04 have been tested to 05 regulations and passed?
  • Lordy, Lordy, make it all end.

    The real problem with all this is that Stoddie is being set-up by the big boys + Mosley used to be an ally!
  • I'm at a loss here. If the 04 car complies with the aero regs, whats the problem? Can't be the engine. Change it after every race and take the penalty.
  • Melbourne is the place for Stoddart to make a point.

    The Aussies DO support the underdog!
    They like to see a race without bureaucratic nonsense.

    Mosely must know that Stoddart would get a lot of publicity and if he came down hard, Stoddie might go to the local courts to press his case.

    F1 doesn't need to start the year sounding like a screw-up.

    I would boycott the race if Minardi weren't allowed to race and there might be a few other Melbournites do the same unless Mosely can present a bloody persuasive case.

    My money would be on Stoddie the Aussie Battler to win the public.

    Melbourne will remember Aussie Paul saving Minardi in 2001 with a furious scramble to make the starting race, then Paul and Mark Webber "on the podium" in 2002. Finally those boring races of 2003 and 2004 followed with continued TOIT domination and FIA bias.

    PS would remind Aussies about the spirit of competition and need to stand up to those who try to suppress it, or spoil the game. Stoddie has his case well honed and will be fired up, even if the PS05 isn't.

    "Paul the underdog versus the Motley crew"

    .....and being a lawyer won't help Motley much downunder.

    Michael's newfound social awareness might spur him to tell TOIT to agree for the sake of the local race.

    [Edited on 13/2/2005 by Dr_Spin]
  • I'm at a loss here. If the 04 car complies with the aero regs, whats the problem? Can't be the engine. Change it after every race and take the penalty.
    As far as I understand the PS04 car doesn't comply with aero regs, only with safety regulations. I also remember (and excuse me for getting him in this again) Jos saying in December that Minardi was interesting because they would have big advantage at the start of the season because they would run with the 2004 car.
  • Look at the testing photos. It complies, unless they haven't changed the diffuser profile.
  • I don't think you can make that claim based on photos. I am pretty sure a guy like you has read the new Sporting Regs but I can also be almost 100% that you have not been in on the design review of the car, seen prints or any of the analysis concerning how the '04 car has been modified or needs to be modified to meet new rules.

    I cannot think that PS would blatantly run a car that was not to '05 spec in every way shape and form. To me that would be pure nuts.
  • I don't think they would run with a raised front wing and re-positioned rear wing unless they were done to the extent that they become legal for 2005. That's why the only question in my mind, in terms of aero, is the diffuser.
  • Albers has tested the ps04, fitted with a complete 2005 spec aero package. So, the fuzz is not about not having a car ready to start the season according regulations. The idea to let the original 2004 car run the first race was mentioned before, but at the same time they started testing the first parts of the 2005 aero package. So Stoddarts goes both ways: everybody on the grid knows he can bring in a 2005 spec car, so they will make him do it. But he refuses to comply with the power of the big teams and FIA. He wants attention, he needs attention, he wants a bit of power too. Do not worry, they will have the dreadfull 2005 spec 2004 car on the grid. And that is the only good reason to be so stubborn: they will be appaling.

    lock
  • There's a point to be made about the way the cost cutting plan is falling apart, and that Max is a key culprit. But this is not the way to make it. Ther is no plausible victory scenario. Max defeated the manufacturers over the V8s, effectively the same issue, and the GPWC is dead. All the cards are with the FIA.

    Stunts like this are disaster for any plan to return Minardi to credibility. Let's hope this is just Stoddart mouthing off again.
  • Stoddie has shown to be all talk in the past, I think he's bluffing.
  • This is pure cack. Its called Formula 1. You build a car to comply with the formula. Its up to the stewards to decide. Any court decision will fall to Lusanne and the International court for sporting arbitration.
  • The problem is that the legallity of said Formula is in question. :(
  • Heard a soundbite from Paul this morning on melbourne radio regarding the issue, basically his opinion and chain of events are:

    - checked with lawyers, and they feel he has a strong case
    - if the cars are deemed illegal (fail strutineering) they will appeal and race under protest
    - in the court of arbitration, he believes his appeal will be successful
  • "... It is a little bit difficult to understand; they voted for them in the TWG, he also voted for them in the famous fax vote but changed his vote…”

    Stoddart himself, however, has disputed Mosley's viewpoint about the 2005 regulations – insisting that he had not supported them and claiming that legally he is correct to present his 2004 cars for scrutineering in Melbourne.
    Mosely recognises that Stoddart changed his vote in the 'fax vote' therefore from a legal perspective it's difficult how the FIA cold claim the teams were unanimous in their support.

    In any case, was the fax vote legal? Is not voting an affirmative vote? Was sufficient time given for the vote? Was sufficient notice given? I think the court of arbitration would find that we are in the right, and should we not be allowed to race we could 'sue their arses'... I think Minardi Club Melbourne would be "suing their arses" as well! :cool:
  • And if that all plays out, that would be the tip of the iceberg!
    you would see mosley as the fall guy and might be forced to quit, thus giving the 9 united teams the opportunity to shift the FIA to their side.

    This whole situation isn't about whether minardi are 'able' to field a 2005 spec car, its the avenue they (stoddie backed by the other teams) are choosing to challenge the rules and challenge mosely's and ferrari stance

    buckle up everybody we're in for a rough ride!

  • Fucking Stoddart. He should just ask Ron and Frank what happens when you take Bernie and Max to arbitration. This won't end pretty.
  • I smell a rat in all this........ Uncle Ron (and his good bud Frank) are using Mr. Stoddart and Minardi to challenge Max's 2005 regs........ wish that Uncle Ron would be the one that was coming to Melbourne with the 2004 car....... but using Paul and Minardi is just so much easier and doesn't cost Uncle Ron a thing..........

    sadly, P. T. Barnum was right....................

    and so are Emmo, Matt, Viges (but I'm still bringing matches to Imola...just in case), and Petroltorque.............

    [Edited on 14/2/2005 by Murph]
  • I'll call his bluff on it. Why bother testing the 04B with 2005 aero kit unless you're going to race it?
  • I think it is a little bit hypocritical of Stoddart to claim that the 2005 regulations are illegal while he's just building a new car to comply with them...
Sign In or Register to comment.