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Geez Jello, some people might think that you are setting yourself up as some kind of relationship expert here...
Whilst it's preferable that the boss gets along with the help, it's not essential, and if the Faenza spanner monkeys don't respect Stoddart and the way he does things, they should bugger off to TOIT or return to a junior formulae.
There's plenty more where they came from just itching to get into F1, and they should certainly respect Stoddart regardless of whether or not they particularly like him, and not make snide remarks to civilian visitors to the factory or the paddock. Be a man, take it to his face.
I have a healthy dose of reverence towards GCM, but he's not paying their wages anymore, and they should remember that.
Whilst it's preferable that the boss gets along with the help, it's not essential, and if the Faenza spanner monkeys don't respect Stoddart and the way he does things, they should bugger off to TOIT or return to a junior formulae.
There's plenty more where they came from just itching to get into F1, and they should certainly respect Stoddart regardless of whether or not they particularly like him, and not make snide remarks to civilian visitors to the factory or the paddock. Be a man, take it to his face.
I have a healthy dose of reverence towards GCM, but he's not paying their wages anymore, and they should remember that.
My 2 cents.
The simple fact that a person at the factory said the comment about Stoddart is nothing. Geez I hate my boss too OK! Yes PS has saved Minardi from the F1 cemetary. My opinion is he should spend a lot more time in Faenza and see how hard these guys are working. Lease quoting Mr Minardi as an Itailian version of Stoddart is a bit much. Two more different people I cannot imagine. Ok PS pays the wages and calls the shots but the idea of beating the Jordans as being the teams ultimate goal sucks. Bernie is right - Identify the objective list the steps to achieve the goal accomplish the task
- Both had moderate success as team owners in junior formulae
- Both have a passion for motor-racing that is not backed up by an engineering background
- Both believe in the spirit of the team
- Both have made flawed decisions that have cost the team progress at critical times
Stoddart originally intended to move the team to Ledbury. Instead (and showing amazing faith in those concerned), he opted to leave the team there as he believed that keeping the guys together in their home town was the best thing for the team. Yet more gratitude.
Face it, all that is going on in this little exchange is that a bunch of you must have someone to blame for a lack of performance and Stoddart is the easy target.
If I was Stoddart, (and I've said this before) and this sort of crap was going around, I'd move the team wholus bolus and rebuild the technical infrastructure from scratch. He'd get the same reactions.
oops, forgot Jello.
Answer - NO. Tell you what I do know though. The moves that any CEO makes are based on the consideration of information; strategic, external, internal, etc, and its affect on desired outcomes. Not all of which will be, or are helpful to be articulated to the rank and file, or anybody else.
The person that complains about their boss is an idiot. If the boss is incompetent and you can't get around that, then piss off, cause the chances are that the incompetent is closer than you think.
PS on the clown theme, unfortunately the cartoon in last week's Autosport foccused on the Barca balls-up and had the Minardi pitwall crew dressed as clowns. Oh dear. People smiling indulgently towards Minardi is not what any of us want.
Face it, all that is going on in this little exchange is that a bunch of you must have someone to blame for a lack of performance and Stoddart is the easy target.
So who else do we blame eh?
The person that complains about their boss is an idiot. If the boss is incompetent and you can't get around that, then piss off, cause the chances are that the incompetent is closer than you think.
Pardon me while I puke!
If I was Stoddart, (and I've said this before) and this sort of crap was going around, I'd move the team wholus bolus and rebuild the technical infrastructure from scratch. He'd get the same reactions.
Great proposals!!!!! And just asnwer these simple questions.
Where is the money?? It's easy to talk about this and that and what you should or should not have done. Where is the funding required to do it??
PS put his hand into his pocket and saved the team. I'm sure he will rebuild the team to the best he can and well within the money he has to keep it afloat so that it is still worth its pennies.
It's great to say " Identify the objective ,list the steps to achieve the goal to accomplish the task". Why be qualitive and waffle around. State the objective and be factual about it. Text book references are not for the real world. Money is.
No point saying PS is full of shit. State where he had gone wrong and what he should have done and how to remedy it. "Full of shit" is only the foreplay. Remedies are the orgasms. Think about it.:hehe:
Bernie, who did you blame for the lack of results prior to 2000??
"If I was Stoddart, (and I've said this before) and this sort of crap was going around, I'd move the team wholus bolus and rebuild the technical infrastructure from scratch."
Abso-bloody-lutely. Here, Here. I'm sure there's plenty of ex-F1 people out there looking for work. What about the people from Prost, Arrows or JagRac, and if we believe the media, there walking out the Jordan door as well. Bring up some people from junior formulae, scour the University's. There out there, we just gotta find 'em.
PS Quig, about the "However, rumor has it that PS spends only 2 days a month in Faenza." rumour. Dpends on where you heard it from, the report I heard said it was 2 days per week.
MOve the Team. Sure. All the machine tools. All the hand tools. The jigs, fixtures .....
Then build a Team from ex somebody else's Teams. Bet that would be cohesive right from the start.
I'm surprised at you Oz. You, as an NCO, know a thing or two about leadership. When you, as an NCO come into a new leadership role you assess the strengths and weakness' of your troops. PS must have done this and decided that an integrated , skilled an passionate bunch already in place and working well togwether was a MUCH better ption than upping the whole establishment and moving the lot to the UK.
I'll say few of the Italians would have gone. They grew up in and arounf Faenza. They don't speak English as their primary language and for the most part have had generations in Emila Romagna and prob not open for leaving.
Would people want the jobs? Lined up outside the door. But F1 jobs in England are very prone to poaching from each other - with most quality people being sucked out of small under funbded Teams to be replaced by rookies or new entrants into f1.
No, the faenza crowd is the way to go.
But I think what they want is a little leadership. Day to day leadership.
GCM still opens the place up - in an answer to my direct question he said about 95% + of the time. The gang look to him for answers but in his new position he is not alowed to give them so they have to wait - or give it their best guess. i do not know how tight the decision making process is but like any group with tight deadlines somebody needs to be the decision maker.
Who told me two days a month ... well it was a reliable long standing employee. Not a management guy just a regular worker. He had no reason to lie.
All I can say, as I have said before - is that we are lucky PS was the one who got the Team but, and that is a BIG BUT. IMHO he should spend more time in Faenza.
All I can say, as I have said before - is that we are lucky PS was the one who got the Team but, and that is a BIG BUT. IMHO he should spend more time in Faenza.
Ok, hmmmm. What do you know about leadership? Ever been in the Boy Scouts or the military?
Ever heard the term "lead by example"?
Do you think successfull CEO's COO's etc etc know the details of what their minions do day in and out?
No. They might have had - aka Steve Jobs etc but now they act as visionaires and frontmen - not that kind of frontman. They open the place up and close it down. they are visible leaders putting in long hours shoulder to shoulder with the guys and gals on the floor. That or what they do while away is so significant that it propels the team forward.
That is why leadership is so important.
PS has leadership ability. I've met him. Shook his hand. He has "it"
It just comes as a surprise that he is systematically vacant in Faenza
Granted it ain't much of a town ....
However, I just think that a dynamic personality and some face time, demonstratable concern for the welfare of the workers goes a long way in making the Team work ...and hence the performance gains.
Well Quig if you want to go there. I am a General Manager, and I report to the CEO. I run the day to day operations. The employees report to me. I make the decisions for the employees. The CEO does not get bogged down in operational matters. That's what he pays me to do.
Ever been in the Boy Scouts
No mate, I grew up along time ago.
Do you think successfull CEO's COO's etc etc know the details of what their minions do day in and out?
No, and that is the point I was making. PS employs people to run Faenza. GCM was at the factory, probably every day. You would know better than I do, however Stoddart also has other companies to run.
Which brings me to my point. How would the physical presence of Stoddart make the PS05 faster? I'm sure Tredozi would prefer to run the show without the boss breathing down his neck. After all, that is what he is paid to do.
In 2001, he was entrusted with the most senior engineering role on the team: that of Technical Director. In that position, he controls the day-to-day operation of the Drawing Office as well as the technical staff at Minardi's Faenza base.
If you're suggesting that Tredozzi is in charge of Minardi while Stoddart is away, you're sorely mistaken. Every decision that will have a monetary impact on the team HAS to go above him. When the guy with the money is simply absent 9 times out of 10, you end up putting a lot of shit on the back burner and that results in a lot of resentment from the guys who are working their asses off to get things half-done because you're not around to give them the A-Okay.
Yes, he is in charge of the design office and the shop. No, he can not spend Minardi's money at his own will. He works with what's their. The engineers, the in house R&D, the mechanics etc. No, he can't say "I think this idea is worth investigating, let's get it in the wind tunnel by tomorrow".
Also, the guy who made the "2 days too many" quip might surprise you. This isn't 'just' a mechanic, or even an engineer. We're talking upper management.
Who told me two days a month ... well it was a reliable long standing employee. Not a management guy just a regular worker. He had no reason to lie
From Jello:
Also, the guy who made the "2 days too many" quip might surprise you. This isn't 'just' a mechanic, or even an engineer. We're talking upper management.
You sure you were there?
How about the Yank-loving Fennian, what's his version?
Well Quig if you want to go there. I am a General Manager
If you don't understand the difference between leadership and management ...
Ever been in the Boy Scouts
I grew up along time ago too.
Boy Scouts been around a long time. Maybe if you had joined you could lead instead of manage.
GCM was at the factory, probably every day.
I think he is on a very short leash by order of PS
You would know better than I do, however Stoddart also has other companies to run.
That is the problem. Which hat is he going to wear today...?
A little focus would be good.
How would the physical presence of Stoddart make the PS05 faster?
Refer to the leadership/management section. Presence might help, focus on the daily needs in Faenza and maybe hiring a NEW Marketing Director would be nice. He sacked the last one and the Team is without. He could look into that while he is poking about Faenza.
Hey Lease - take some of that line you are talking about and make yourself useful.
[quote]Who told me two days a month ... well it was a reliable long standing employee. Not a management guy just a regular worker. He had no reason to lie
From Jello:
Also, the guy who made the "2 days too many" quip might surprise you. This isn't 'just' a mechanic, or even an engineer. We're talking upper management.
You sure you were there?[/quote]
I don't know who Jello was talking to but the situation on MY part went a little something like this.
"Hey, some of my people want to meet Paul - is he aroound today?"
No conspiracy, people were genuninly interested in meeting him. It was just that he was not there. Was not at the track on Thursday either - well not when we were there. GCM was.
This thread has so much complete arse in it I just had to add some.
As CEO, Stoddart is responsible for both providing leadership and ensuring technical and operational management structures are in place. The management structure has been steadily run down since 2002, having never fully recovered in the first place from the traumas of 2000.
It's not whether he's there or not, it's whether things run smoothly when he is there and run smoothly when he isn't. The weight of evidence in this thread seems to be that there is a problem, and that is always by definition the responsibility of the boss, not the staff.
Why is it like that? Stoddart has other business interests, not to mention his feud with Max, but either can't afford to or doesn't want to put in place others to run Minardi day to day.
I'm pro Stoddart, so I think it's all a cost driven thing, not just an ego thing. But a management vacuum, or management by Royal visit, is every bit as damaging as lack of leadership - more so in the short term.
As to the Boy Scouts, well that's just a load of fun running round in the woods.
And the inferred superiority of leadership over management? That's recycled aristocrat talk.
"I'm surprised at you Oz. You, as an NCO, know a thing or two about leadership. When you, as an NCO come into a new leadership role you assess the strengths and weakness' of your troops. PS must have done this and decided that an integrated , skilled an passionate bunch already in place and working well togwether was a MUCH better ption than upping the whole establishment and moving the lot to the UK."
Agree with this completely Quig. Stoddie has assessed the strengths of the team lay in it's foundation at Faenza and reamined in situ. But, there also comes a time when the boss has to draw a line in the sand, otherwise the troops are going to ruun over the top of you. As much as I hate to say it, I think it's getting to that time for Paul. I sincerely hope the team remains in it's spiritual home, Minardi would lose a lot by moving, but it may be time for Paul to draw that line.
Something along the lines of, "OK lads, MinardiF1 is not leaving Faenza and I would love for all of to reamin together, but this is how we operate, put up with and get on with the job or tell your story walking."
I also agree with you that 2 days a month is not enough, when I heard the 2 days a week I was ok with that, but 2 days a month is not on.
The most disappointing thing about this whole discussion is that Paul obvioulsy feels he can't trust GCM to run the team on a day to day basis. Why is this, I don't know and I hope it isn't the case. But as more comes out it certainly starting to appear that way, and that is just not right.
Comments
Whilst it's preferable that the boss gets along with the help, it's not essential, and if the Faenza spanner monkeys don't respect Stoddart and the way he does things, they should bugger off to TOIT or return to a junior formulae.
There's plenty more where they came from just itching to get into F1, and they should certainly respect Stoddart regardless of whether or not they particularly like him, and not make snide remarks to civilian visitors to the factory or the paddock. Be a man, take it to his face.
I have a healthy dose of reverence towards GCM, but he's not paying their wages anymore, and they should remember that.
My 2 cents.
list the steps to achieve the goal
accomplish the task
Simple but true.
- Both had moderate success as team owners in junior formulae
- Both have a passion for motor-racing that is not backed up by an engineering background
- Both believe in the spirit of the team
- Both have made flawed decisions that have cost the team progress at critical times
Stoddart originally intended to move the team to Ledbury. Instead (and showing amazing faith in those concerned), he opted to leave the team there as he believed that keeping the guys together in their home town was the best thing for the team. Yet more gratitude.
Face it, all that is going on in this little exchange is that a bunch of you must have someone to blame for a lack of performance and Stoddart is the easy target.
If I was Stoddart, (and I've said this before) and this sort of crap was going around, I'd move the team wholus bolus and rebuild the technical infrastructure from scratch. He'd get the same reactions.
oops, forgot Jello.
Answer - NO. Tell you what I do know though. The moves that any CEO makes are based on the consideration of information; strategic, external, internal, etc, and its affect on desired outcomes. Not all of which will be, or are helpful to be articulated to the rank and file, or anybody else.
The person that complains about their boss is an idiot. If the boss is incompetent and you can't get around that, then piss off, cause the chances are that the incompetent is closer than you think.
[Edited on 17/5/2005 by Lease]
PS on the clown theme, unfortunately the cartoon in last week's Autosport foccused on the Barca balls-up and had the Minardi pitwall crew dressed as clowns. Oh dear. People smiling indulgently towards Minardi is not what any of us want.
Pardon me while I puke! Do you really believe that shit?
Where is the money?? It's easy to talk about this and that and what you should or should not have done. Where is the funding required to do it??
PS put his hand into his pocket and saved the team. I'm sure he will rebuild the team to the best he can and well within the money he has to keep it afloat so that it is still worth its pennies.
It's great to say " Identify the objective ,list the steps to achieve the goal to accomplish the task". Why be qualitive and waffle around. State the objective and be factual about it. Text book references are not for the real world. Money is.
No point saying PS is full of shit. State where he had gone wrong and what he should have done and how to remedy it. "Full of shit" is only the foreplay. Remedies are the orgasms. Think about it.:hehe:
Bernie, who did you blame for the lack of results prior to 2000??
"If I was Stoddart, (and I've said this before) and this sort of crap was going around, I'd move the team wholus bolus and rebuild the technical infrastructure from scratch."
Abso-bloody-lutely. Here, Here. I'm sure there's plenty of ex-F1 people out there looking for work. What about the people from Prost, Arrows or JagRac, and if we believe the media, there walking out the Jordan door as well. Bring up some people from junior formulae, scour the University's. There out there, we just gotta find 'em.
PS Quig, about the "However, rumor has it that PS spends only 2 days a month in Faenza." rumour. Dpends on where you heard it from, the report I heard said it was 2 days per week.
Then build a Team from ex somebody else's Teams. Bet that would be cohesive right from the start.
I'm surprised at you Oz. You, as an NCO, know a thing or two about leadership. When you, as an NCO come into a new leadership role you assess the strengths and weakness' of your troops. PS must have done this and decided that an integrated , skilled an passionate bunch already in place and working well togwether was a MUCH better ption than upping the whole establishment and moving the lot to the UK.
I'll say few of the Italians would have gone. They grew up in and arounf Faenza. They don't speak English as their primary language and for the most part have had generations in Emila Romagna and prob not open for leaving.
Would people want the jobs? Lined up outside the door. But F1 jobs in England are very prone to poaching from each other - with most quality people being sucked out of small under funbded Teams to be replaced by rookies or new entrants into f1.
No, the faenza crowd is the way to go.
But I think what they want is a little leadership. Day to day leadership.
GCM still opens the place up - in an answer to my direct question he said about 95% + of the time. The gang look to him for answers but in his new position he is not alowed to give them so they have to wait - or give it their best guess. i do not know how tight the decision making process is but like any group with tight deadlines somebody needs to be the decision maker.
Who told me two days a month ... well it was a reliable long standing employee. Not a management guy just a regular worker. He had no reason to lie.
All I can say, as I have said before - is that we are lucky PS was the one who got the Team but, and that is a BIG BUT. IMHO he should spend more time in Faenza.
As Stoddart is not technical, how will his increased presence improve the performance of the car?
Ok, hmmmm. What do you know about leadership? Ever been in the Boy Scouts or the military?
Ever heard the term "lead by example"?
Do you think successfull CEO's COO's etc etc know the details of what their minions do day in and out?
No. They might have had - aka Steve Jobs etc but now they act as visionaires and frontmen - not that kind of frontman. They open the place up and close it down. they are visible leaders putting in long hours shoulder to shoulder with the guys and gals on the floor. That or what they do while away is so significant that it propels the team forward.
That is why leadership is so important.
PS has leadership ability. I've met him. Shook his hand. He has "it"
It just comes as a surprise that he is systematically vacant in Faenza
Granted it ain't much of a town ....
However, I just think that a dynamic personality and some face time, demonstratable concern for the welfare of the workers goes a long way in making the Team work ...and hence the performance gains.
Which brings me to my point. How would the physical presence of Stoddart make the PS05 faster? I'm sure Tredozi would prefer to run the show without the boss breathing down his neck. After all, that is what he is paid to do. Minardi.it
Pretty much, most of the time...
[Edited on 19/5/2005 by SuperRoo]
Yes, he is in charge of the design office and the shop. No, he can not spend Minardi's money at his own will. He works with what's their. The engineers, the in house R&D, the mechanics etc. No, he can't say "I think this idea is worth investigating, let's get it in the wind tunnel by tomorrow".
Also, the guy who made the "2 days too many" quip might surprise you. This isn't 'just' a mechanic, or even an engineer. We're talking upper management.
How about the Yank-loving Fennian, what's his version?
Boy Scouts been around a long time. Maybe if you had joined you could lead instead of manage.
I think he is on a very short leash by order of PS
That is the problem. Which hat is he going to wear today...?
A little focus would be good. Refer to the leadership/management section. Presence might help, focus on the daily needs in Faenza and maybe hiring a NEW Marketing Director would be nice. He sacked the last one and the Team is without. He could look into that while he is poking about Faenza.
Hey Lease - take some of that line you are talking about and make yourself useful.
I don't know who Jello was talking to but the situation on MY part went a little something like this.
"Hey, some of my people want to meet Paul - is he aroound today?"
No conspiracy, people were genuninly interested in meeting him. It was just that he was not there. Was not at the track on Thursday either - well not when we were there. GCM was.
As CEO, Stoddart is responsible for both providing leadership and ensuring technical and operational management structures are in place. The management structure has been steadily run down since 2002, having never fully recovered in the first place from the traumas of 2000.
It's not whether he's there or not, it's whether things run smoothly when he is there and run smoothly when he isn't. The weight of evidence in this thread seems to be that there is a problem, and that is always by definition the responsibility of the boss, not the staff.
Why is it like that? Stoddart has other business interests, not to mention his feud with Max, but either can't afford to or doesn't want to put in place others to run Minardi day to day.
I'm pro Stoddart, so I think it's all a cost driven thing, not just an ego thing. But a management vacuum, or management by Royal visit, is every bit as damaging as lack of leadership - more so in the short term.
As to the Boy Scouts, well that's just a load of fun running round in the woods.
And the inferred superiority of leadership over management? That's recycled aristocrat talk.
That being said you did bring up a good point. the fact that there is contention in the ranks is very meaningful and needs attention ASAP.
[Edited on 19/5/2005 by MCSF]
Agree with this completely Quig. Stoddie has assessed the strengths of the team lay in it's foundation at Faenza and reamined in situ. But, there also comes a time when the boss has to draw a line in the sand, otherwise the troops are going to ruun over the top of you. As much as I hate to say it, I think it's getting to that time for Paul. I sincerely hope the team remains in it's spiritual home, Minardi would lose a lot by moving, but it may be time for Paul to draw that line.
Something along the lines of, "OK lads, MinardiF1 is not leaving Faenza and I would love for all of to reamin together, but this is how we operate, put up with and get on with the job or tell your story walking."
I also agree with you that 2 days a month is not enough, when I heard the 2 days a week I was ok with that, but 2 days a month is not on.
The most disappointing thing about this whole discussion is that Paul obvioulsy feels he can't trust GCM to run the team on a day to day basis. Why is this, I don't know and I hope it isn't the case. But as more comes out it certainly starting to appear that way, and that is just not right.