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(courtesy of F1 Central) Formula One will still roar next year.
Some suspect that the new 2.4 litre V8 formula, to in 2006 replace the current V10 power plants, may be a gentler music to the ear.
But an observer near McLaren's recent Mercedes-Benz V8 track debut - at the Elvington airfield (UK) - said the engine howl 'still sounds great.'
He added: ''It sounded the same to me.''
Cosworth, on the other hand, predict that their 2006 engine will rev at and beyond 20,000rpm, putting the current 18-19,000 V10 in the shade
Great, so our V10 will be put in the shade by the new V8 and then they're going to limit it on top of that. I hope they get NO customers for the V8 and then come to an agreement with PS which ends with us using the V8's or we're in the shit.
Do you think if Cosworth did put a deal on the table that PS would accept considering the costs of re-designing the car around a new engine, or is he quite happy to stick with the V10?
Comments
on the other hand if the v8 block is a modular design of the v 10 block, then why not just use the last v2 bit as a plug to ft the gearbox to. sorry just kidding
My step mom's 98 Contour has a redline of 7k. I don't have to tell you that it's slower than shit.
My dad's 454 tops out at 6k. It also makes 500 horses.
Power will be down for a year or so, I predict. I would imagine that it would take minimal altering to make the car run with a V8, should Paul come to his senses or into some cash. The bellhousing should bolt up and if it doesn't then make a spacer. The V8 will be 90 degrees so the cooling system and packaging probably wouldn't need drastic revisions. The new car and V8 being lighter, you have more balast to play with to sort out the handling after that.
All we're lacking is money. As usual.
1. The spacer as you call it would need to have a very high torsional stiffness and heat resistance, so it wouldnt be that light in weight. every part between the monocouque and the gearbox makes stiffness and therfore handling a bit shitter, also this dead wight of the spacer and additional bolts would be quite high up in the car compared to where they normally stick ballast.
2. using the 'spacer' solution would result in a compromised unoptimised auto that might be even slower thend etuned v10, esepcially if the car is sorted out by then end of the season. by that i mean none of the aero would be optimised, it would all be the asme gear as this year.
3.of course the cooling requirements will probably be different for the smaller displacement enginer despite its increased revs, and so would need new radiators and sidepods, or old inefficient heavy ones.
4. gear box. if the bell housing fits that aweseom, but new sofware and aslo new rations etc would surely have to be developed taking nito account the higher revs and most likely different toourque curve of the smaller engine
so yeah, its in theory doable, but it definately wouldnt be cool if it werent done properly, and that would cost in the same abll park as what we did this year i guess. thats why i was sorta joking when i suggeted the 'plug' / 'spacer' thing
Stay Classy Forza Minardi
[Edited on 26/5/2005 by HAND_SOLO]
I really doubt that anything will be slower than the V10 next year. Max Mosely setting our rev limiter while the V8 chops off 2 cylinders and will make more power? It would take a Jordan-esque effort to be slower!
In terms of cooling, it would be very possible to use the same cooling. You'd be taking a step down in terms of requirements, so the current setup would be adequate, yet less than ideal. It's not as though our car is always optimised in the first place.
Gear ratios shouldn't be too big of a deal. IIRC Andy Tilley said that they get about 3,000 km about of a set currently. It's not as though you're talking about a big expense, when it would be the same as any other change, simply with different ratios being bought. There may be a slight cost for tooling. Besides, with a lower reving and less powerful TJ, you're looking at different ratios anyway.
Yes, it's going to cost money and time, but it's an expendature that Stoddart can't afford to not make. We have a bit of momentum at the moment and if we can carry it through the rest of the year, it would be a disaster to let it go to waste by using a V10. I'm certain that there's no way to do worse than that. After all, this is the team that fit a CR3 into a PS02 with no budget.
im all for keepinh hope alive. but ireckon the toyota donk is probably the best out there. and look at jordans performance! i guess thats the point im trying to make. with out a decent investemn the results could be very crap, even with a cool engine but, as ive stated all along of cource it is possible to use a plug, i just just dont dig it as an engineer, of course the cooling would suffice, but its a waste of weight again witha a high cg, and the aero would suck.
in a perfect world we would have a nice redesign, but of course that requires cash. like i said catch 22, but i dont see us having a v8 next year, at least not in the start of the season.
so its then a cost/benefit thing i guess. a half assed installation of a v8 would work but the results would be shit. look what happened when we dropped the cossie, which was mcuh better then the asiatech, in the ps02, it totally sucked! i wouldnt want that again.
if ps has a choice between blowing a few mil, having a v8 and being last, and blowing nothing and having a v10 and being last, well, as my magic 8 ball would say, signs point to no. hope im wrong of course.
It would take some effort, but it's not the monsterous task that some would have you believe. The design office could start work on it with the word go, and the only extra costs would be the V8 and the minor cost of materials. We already do a good amount of pre-season testing, so getting things right wouldn't have to be a huge concern.
I think Stoddart jumped the gun on next year's engines. I think he'll be recieving 9th place TV monies and he underestimated the teams ability to earn them.
the solution you suggest, i agree, is not hard work, however
to be done properly it is indded a monstrous task
aero side pods
aero rear end
gear box calibiration alterations => testin, expensive
new cooling system, etc etc
to be done shoddily it is, I agree, realatively easy. so, like i said, i see you point but i hope it doesnt turn out half assed like in the past, it would be the wrong way to go.
but also so does displacement.
For a given displacement the more revs the more power. Thats why everyones trying to get the last few rpm out of the engine to produce that little but more power
HP = Torque x RPM
5252
the larger the displacement the more torque it will produce. Let me guess but does your dads car have a larger engine?
to get roughly the same power as now they need to add on at least 3800 rpm. I recon that will take untill the atart of 07 maybe even end of 06. In the end we will see engines more powerful than the v10s we have now.
RPM is why the FIA are setting a limit on the bore and stroke of the cylingders to stop the teams expanding the bore to get a shorter stroke and therefore more rpm.
[Edited on 26/5/2005 by Ste]
This was my point. :)
Its hard to believe that the tyre construction won't change to accomodate the V8s as well.
In short you're looking at a disaster if one wants to persevere with a V10.
In terms of investment. Its not going to cost any thing to work out the best wheelbase and weight distribution as that is an academic exercise. The cost is entailed in building the models and evaluation.
Things are already looking dicey for this year. Jordabski are holding on to ninth spot by virtue of a tenth place finish. They have been testing at Silverstone this week and the revised car is due for the North American swing.
so my question, as always, is, is a half assed v8 installation any better then pesevering with the v10. especially if we were to use a spacer/plug whatever you want to call it, all the optimal wheelbase theory goes out the window.
so therein lies the dilemma......................
Thing is unless a new (big) sponsor comes along soon a new car wont happen next year, given the time for R&D.
Looks like a PS05B next year.:mad:
[Edited on 2/6/2005 by SuperRoo]
If the team get an extra $5 million from ninth spot. There's a good chance to enter into negotion with Cosworth and introduce a V8 based chassis in 2006.
Lets face it Cosworth will want someone to put mileage on their new engine.
If however you show them the groundwork for the V8 and say your money will allow us to produce a new car in 06 and build on that for 07. Then we're talking.