FIA asks for BAR to be thrown out of championship

vuurmuur · May 2005

PARIS (Reuters) - Formula One's governing body has asked an appeal hearing to throw BAR out of this year's world championship, an FIA spokesman said on Wednesday.

"The FIA asks the court to exclude the Lucky Strike BAR Honda team from the 2005 Formula One world championship and to fine the team at least one million euros," the International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a dossier of evidence presented to the Paris hearing.

BAR's Jenson Button finished third in the San Marino Grand Prix. The FIA are appealing against a decision by race stewards to uphold that result despite suspicions that BAR competed with an underweight car.

Reuters

Holy s**t. :o This means topteams need to run a third car! I doubt Honda will be in F1 next year!
A special press conference by the Fia is scheduled on Friday.

PistonBroke · May 2005

[quote]PARIS (Reuters) - Formula One's governing body has asked an appeal hearing to throw BAR out of this year's world championship, an FIA spokesman said on Wednesday.

Does this mean we will be at least 9th if not 8th in the Championship.
;)

MCSF · May 2005

F1 cannot afford a scandal like this.

printscreen · May 2005

That's what i was thinkin;: it'll all blow over.. no way this is gonna happen.

MCSF · May 2005

That is not my point. If this happens then it is a scandal of proportion I have never seen in F1 and will have a long term negative impact on the series.

manlio27 · May 2005

I'm ready to bet my arse BAR shall not be disqualified.

Neil_s · May 2005

me too - this is all bull...

:D

Clown · May 2005

I'm ready to bet my arse BAR shall not be disqualified.

I'll bet Manlio's arse they will.
Either way it leaves Manlio arseless :hehe:

But they won't be DQ'd

Ravlen · May 2005

I have a real fear of what the court knows and understands. This is like taking your own referee to court, because he didn't call a penalty. What is done at a competition has to be decided then, not after the fact. The stewards made a decision, and that's what they are paid to do. Hopefully the courts will see this like any other sport "The Ref made a call, you hired the Ref, fire him if you don't like his calls".

Secondly, having BAR eliminated would most likely ruin F1, possibly permanently. It might also futher cement the non Ferrari's to further cement their goal to create a new series in 2008. The fear of being banned from the championship after stewards say a car is OK would certainly be enough for me to put more ink on paper in relation to creating my own series.

Regardless of the outcome, I'm willing to bet that all teams feel a target on their back now. What will cause FIA to go ballistic next? Your wing is 1mm too close to the ground, I'm banning your team from the championship. The possibility of tens of millions of dollars down the tubes for an interpretation of a rule that might be vaguely worded (and even supported by stewards) porbably just put the nail in the coffin of F1 as it stands today. I'm completely serious about this.

I want to repeat it, every team is going to be looking over their shoulder now, regardless of the outcome.

Ravlen

[Edited on 4/5/2005 by Ravlen]

Homer · May 2005

[quote][quote]PARIS (Reuters) - Formula One's governing body has asked an appeal hearing to throw BAR out of this year's world championship, an FIA spokesman said on Wednesday.

Does this mean we will be at least 9th if not 8th in the Championship.
;) [/quote]

Hey, that's exactly what i thought.

btw: pint, check your private messages.

theweatherman · May 2005

If they do get disqualified form the championship it wont be the first time a team has been.
Tyrrell were disqualified in the early 80's for particles been found in their fuel which was decided constituted to illegal ballast. They lost all their points but completed the season.

MCSF · May 2005

the answer was supposed to be out at or around 2 PM Euro time - its well past that now .....

vuurmuur · May 2005

From F1racing:
The hearing in Paris should finish this halfway this afternoon and a decision is expected on Thursday.

Selespeed · May 2005

What the hell, all teams run their cars not completely legal, FIA just don't have the guts to challenge the big boys...

2001: Williams, illegal traction-control
2001: Williams, illegal diffuser
2003: Toyota, copy of the Ferrari
2003: Ferrari, flexible undertray
2004: McLaren / Sauber, Flexible rearwings
2004: Sauber, Ferrari copy
2004: Renault, launchcontrol
2005: Ferrari, testing testing 24-7

Should I go on?! :mad:

printscreen · May 2005

2004 + 2005

everyone, except for us now and then - banned TC ;)

Stan · May 2005

What the hell, all teams run their cars not completely legal, FIA just don't have the guts to challenge the big boys...

2001: Williams, illegal traction-control
2001: Williams, illegal diffuser
2003: Toyota, copy of the Ferrari
2003: Ferrari, flexible undertray
2004: McLaren / Sauber, Flexible rearwings
2004: Sauber, Ferrari copy
2004: Renault, launchcontrol
2005: Ferrari, testing testing 24-7

Should I go on?! :mad:

Yes please. There's still at least 50 years of Formula1 history to cover. :D

Selespeed · May 2005

Sorry Stan, the question was retoric ;)

But I'll ad some famous wannabee loopholes for you:

1977: Arrows, for being a Shadow DN9 copy
1978: Brabham, BT46B fan car (victory susstained, fan banned)
1981: Lotus, double chassis to generate ground effect (car never competed, not allowed to race)
1982: Williams, double set of rear wheels (never drove after altering rules with a section 'a' paragraph: "cars are not allowed to have more then 4 wheels")
1982: Ferrari, double rearwing (banned after detroit race)
1997: Tyrell, side wings (banned after few races because sheer uglyness!)
2001: Arrows, Monaco top-nose front wing (banned before race, probably for the same reason, although 'saftey' was the original version)

Clown · May 2005

1981: Lotus, double chassis to generate ground effect (car never competed, not allowed to race)

That car was 100% legal.
Unfortinately for Chapman, the FIA didn't like it :(

[Edited on 4/5/2005 by Clown]

PistonBroke · May 2005

[quote]1981: Lotus, double chassis to generate ground effect (car never competed, not allowed to race)

That car was 100% legal.
Unfortinately for Chapman, the FIA didn't like it :(

[Edited on 4/5/2005 by Clown] [/quote]

Colin Chapman said once...."rules are made to be broken"
..its all down to the interpretation.

max_torq · May 2005

Pushing the engineering rules is:
"Ohh, we didn't think of that and it will be banned next season":
Blatantly breaking the sporting rules and hoping not to get get caught, and lying when you do is a different matter; it's like doping in the olympics.

Kick 'em out or else toss out the rulebook. Whats the point of it ... if they are left in everyone will be cheating next year.

Brooksey · May 2005

It's only cheating when you get caught. :P

TasM · May 2005

...and BAR got caught!

[Edited on 5/5/2005 by TasM]

Manni · May 2005

My bet is banned for one race and all their points withdrawn.

The week off will give them time to get the car back to spec.

JuniorMin · May 2005

I hardly think they lied... the FIA knew about the issue in Malaysia.

No scrutineers raised an issue in Malaysia.

The FIA ruled the cars acceptable in Bahrain.

Now the FIA say, you deceived us?

theweatherman · May 2005

Its been announced! BAR have been banned for two races and had their points from Imola docked.

Source: itv-f1.com

willie12masters · May 2005

If I am reading the outcome of the BAR court case correctly the San Marino results are as follows.

1. Alonso 10pts
2. M Schumacher 8pts
3. Wurz 6pts
4. VILLENEUVE 5pts
5. Trulli 4pts
6. Heidfeld 3pts
7. Webber 2pts
8. Liuzzi 1pt

first point in his first race for Liuzzi and also a great result for Villeneuve.

:D

Ravlen · May 2005

Not to mention a theoretical podium for Wurz in his first race in years...

Ravlen

minardimontreal · May 2005

I could see why most of the Teams want to quit the FIA circus. I wonder how the decision would have been if it were Ferrari. F1 needs to sort out itself. But hey... they still continue sell a good product, and two races without BAR could only have a positive impact on Minardi's results. Hope they could take advantage of this!

xiola · May 2005

Wow, that's harsh. BAR misses Monaco, the greatest race of the year. Too much of a penalty, in my opinion.

Good for Trulli to get extra points though. Still the dark horse for the championship

MCSF · May 2005

I don't see the problem. BAR cheated, they got caught and bow they are going to have to pay the price. Where is the issue?

JumpeySpyder · May 2005

Bar to appeal

FIA APPEAL VERDICT – a statement from the B.A.R Honda team

This is a statement from Nick Fry, Chief Executive Officer of B.A.R Honda in relation to the ruling of the FIA International Court of Appeal, 5 May 2005:

"B.A.R Honda is appalled at the decision of the FIA International Court of Appeal and asserts that the judgement is contrary to all of the evidence heard yesterday. The team proved that it complied with the current regulations and the FIA now acknowledges that the regulations are unclear.

"We repeat that at no time did B.A.R Honda run underweight at the San Marino Grand Prix and this was also unchallenged by the FIA.

"While the International Court of Appeal rejected the FIA's original accusations of fraud and deception, B.A.R Honda says that this penalty is wholly and grossly disproportionate.

"The team is advised by its legal counsel that the judgement is plainly wrong based on the evidence presented and it is currently examining its options."

Its also reported on pitpass they still intend to race in spain

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=24321

[Edited on 5/5/2005 by JumpeySpyder]

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FIA asks for BAR to be thrown out of championship

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