Can't wait for those Cossies

Manni

They were strong and fast.

A half decent chassis and we could be making our way to the mid field.

Jordan seemed to be struggling with the Toyotas. Might have been a Corolla engine?

Bring on Imola.

Jello_Biafra

It's a good situation not just for Minardi but for F1 in general. A sport where we see last place just 1-2 laps down is a healthier sport than 2004 where Minardi was ending up 4 laps down regularly.

MinardiP1

Those RBRs were jets - I was thinking that Webber must've looked at DC more than once and thought 'damn, I had some input into that thing and now it's beating me'. ;)

Bring on the 900hp Cossie!

[Edited on 7/3/2005 by MinardiP1]

Alloy

Never mind Jordan's struggles, the Toyota chasis seems like a total dog on the long haul.

Bring on the PS05, and much ooph cossie.

BTW, was anybody else irritated when they went on about how Ferrari will launch in europe, but Minardi & Jordan have to use upgraded chassis. Don't they pay attention.

yokosuna

The team will blast the Midlands and IMHO even get Ralfie in that Tojo brick (Trulli is a different story). RBR will get down in the grid as the other teams have more dosh to improve than them, but even though they will get more points this season. We can fight for 8th in constructors once the new car is available. Roll on Imola, ahoy!

MinardiP1

Like I said in another thread, the new car had better be a quantum leap ahead of the PS04B - try 5 seconds a lap, maybe 10 at Spa - or we will have been guilty of talking a whole lotta shit in the season predictions thread.

The engine wont be near enough if the aero sucks and we can't turn into corners at any kind of speed.

We were 7 seconds behind Renault in Oz, and that's on a 1.26 laptime. :o

jk

I think it's a bit harsh to compare lap times from this year - the car maybe in 05 spec but as we know it hasn't been in the tunnel - Also the engine has been further detuned so that it could possibly last 2 GPs -

Roll on the European season - at the moment all we need to do is get the races over one by one and get a bit more F1 exp for CA & PF.

MinardiP1

You are correct of course jk, the PS04B may have been only 5 seconds behind with some aero tweaks, but it still means a whole lot of improvement is needed with the PS05 to be on par with Jordan and anyone else.

vuurmuur

With the new Cosworth alone the Minardi will probably be 1.5 seconds faster. Hopefully they are also able to make some improvement in new chassis.

Skruff

Should forget any comparisons to the PS04b, the thing is a complete hack.

The PS04 at the OZ GP last year was running 1:30.1 with GB behind the wheel. This year's Jordan did a 1:27.9 (NK), the difference is just over 2 seconds. The OZ GP was also the worst fastest race lap performance (percentage wise), with the exception of Monaco. Therefore, the gap between last year's Minardi and this year's Jordan is less than 2 seconds per lap (during a race).

The new Minardi has about 100 more horses, which people have said makes between 0.8-1.5 seconds per lap difference. The question will be how much of a gain/loss will minardi find with the new car in the aero and mechanical areas, given the new rules.

Not much you can conclude with no testing data, but even if they break-even on the aero/mechanical sides we will be pushing the Jordans.

ThunderboltSeven

To quote Family Guy's Stewie,

"All this talk (of car performance) has got me frisky- seriously, I've got half a pack of Rolaids in my diapers!"

Steve

the new engine is 890 BHP(the current has 800), but from Indy on Red Bull will get 920(and Minardi won't get that engine): TOIT has 950 currently(but like all other teams they are developing their engine to get even more).

it all depends on the new car: if it has the same grip as the PS04 those 90 BHP are useless.

SuperRoo

Isn't strange then that RedBull want a more powerfull engine next year and dump Cosworth...

Skruff

the new engine is 890 BHP(the current has 800), but from Indy on Red Bull will get 920(and Minardi won't get that engine): TOIT has 950 currently(but like all other teams they are developing their engine to get even more).

If this is the case, then DCs RBR car is down 60 BHP on the TOIT cars. This would seem like a rather large amount given where he finished on Sunday.

My understanding (limited as this is), was that the new cosworth has about 910BHP and that most of the other teams have more or less the same as last year (900-930). I do remember hearing that the BMW may even be down on power this year.

This is all just guessing however.

MinardiP1

BMW have multiple engine maps that allow outright power or a more conservative tune. Thiessen was quoted on the weekend indicating that BMW were using the conservative specs in Australia to see how the 2-weekend thing plays out.

I think 'conservative' was an 18,000rpm limit.

Jello_Biafra

it all depends on the new car: if it has the same grip as the PS04 those 90 BHP are useless.

What a crap statement to make. Any car with more power is going to have more grip.

MinardiP1

I don't that statement is crap at all Jello. If I add 200hp to my Evo it isn't going to necessarily grip any better, in fact it's more likely to grip worse. I had the same opinion as Steve, if the aero sucks having a powerful engine wont help laptimes a whole lot:

The engine wont be near enough if the aero sucks and we can't turn into corners at any kind of speed.

Please explain why we're wrong? :o If i'm wrong and there's a technical reason that i'm missing please tell me. :)

Jello_Biafra

Your Evo isn't a Formula One car. It doesn't carry downforce in excess of it's weight etc. When you add more wing to an F1 car it's handling changes. Adding a wing to your car won't do anything. There's been plenty of cases of a powerful engine flattering a poor chassis or visa versa.

Regarding Honda and Red Bull, it's soley financial. They want to pay less but they'll get what they pay for.

[Edited on 10/3/2005 by Jello_Biafra]

Skruff

I agree with Jello on this one. There is always a balance between downforce and drag with the areo. If your engine gets more power, then you increase the downforce/drag produced by the car while maintaning the cars speed down the straights. Therefore no time lost on the straights and time gained in the corners due to the higher downforce settings.

Cornering speed in F1 car is determined more by downforce levels than anything else. In road cars the speed is mostly governed by the mechanical grip.

Petroltorque

Both of you have valid points. Cornering is a factor of the cars stability. If your running more wing to maintain that stabilty you're loosing the battle.
Ironically you want to reduce the amount of wing you're running. Hence cut drag. The emphasis is on the underbody downforce from the undertray and diffusor. That where the performance gains from a powerful engine really lay.

MCSF

But you have to balance mechanical grip and aero grip. If, when exiting a slow corner and you push the loud pedal to the floor all of the aero grip in the world won't help you as you have no flow to produce it - what is needed there is mech grip so that the power is transferred to the surface.

silverghost

Mechanical grip - traditionally a Minardi strong suit, but these days who knows?

I'm quite hopeful for the PS05 to at least be respectable. Jordan had a diminished technical staff, hacked about last year's car, spent virtually no money, and hired rookies, and didn't look embarassingly bad (maybe Sepang will be a different story). Why can't Minardi do better designing from scratch? Now that we suspect the engine is pretty good, and our drivers should be the equal of Jordan's, if we didn't beat them it would be pretty damning.

Steve

According to Jos the Ps04 did'nt have good mechanical grip, that could be chanched by a different rear suspension geometry, but that meant that they needed a new gearbox and there was'nt any money for that.

and a diminished staff??

I thought only 90 people work at Minardi these days?

Jello_Biafra

Paul has already confirmed a new gearbox housing.

Minardus

Jos tested the PS04, but .... PS04 = A23 (Arrows)

Steve

Jos tested the PS04, but .... PS04 = A23 (Arrows)

I meant PS03

but anyway: the gap between the fastes racelaps for Jordan and Minardi in OZ was 4.8 seconds, it would be a miracle if the team would close that gap(and the pope is on the other team :hehe: )

Skruff

but anyway: the gap between the fastes racelaps for Jordan and Minardi in OZ was 4.8 seconds, it would be a miracle if the team would close that gap(and the pope is on the other team )

That maybe true, but the gap between this year's Jordan and last year's Minardi was only just over two seconds and at Maly it maybe less. So Minardi need to improve by two seconds over the old car to be racing the Jordans. Which is not out of the question.

Man, I feel like I'm repeating myself ... oh thats right, I am.

Steve

No, in racetrim the gap was 4.8 seconds:

17 19 Narain Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota 1:27.970

18 18 Tiago Monteiro Jordan-Toyota 1:28.999

19 20 Patrick Friesacher Minardi-Cosworth 1:32.852

20 21 Christijan Albers Minardi-Cosworth 1:33.144



[Edited on 14/3/2005 by Steve]

Skruff

For the third time, "the gap between this year's Jordan and last year's Minardi was only just over two seconds". I don't know if I can make it any clearer than that.

OZ GP 2005: 17 19 Narain Karthikeyan Jordan-Toyota 1:27.970

OZ GP 2004: 19 20 Gianmaria Bruni Minardi-Cosworth 1:30.161

Difference = 2.191 sec.

Now you can re-read my post in this context

That maybe true, but the gap between this year's Jordan and last year's Minardi was only just over two seconds and at Maly it maybe less. So Minardi need to improve by two seconds over the old car to be racing the Jordans. Which is not out of the question.

Man, I feel like I'm repeating myself ... oh thats right, I am.

Steve

get real: the 2004 Minardi doesn't comply with 2005 regulations, the 2005 Jordan does, so you can't compare those 2 cars and the gap Minardi has to bridge is still 4.8 seconds.

we could also say that last years fastes lap for Bruni was faster than a Williams(if you forget that time was from HHF in 1997)

Skruff

You also can't compare the times of a car that was never designed to run under these regulations (PS04b), to one that was (EJ 15).

By comparing the times of the old Minardi and the new Jordan I am pointing out that the new Minardi must be 2 seconds a lap faster than the Minardi of last year.
Although the rules have changed significantly, the team has a new (and far better) engine and has a completely new car for the first time in three years. Given this, bridging a gap of 2 seconds between the old and new car might be possible.