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sorry, i don't see the moral obligation to vocally support the team, just because it happens to be based in faenza. i'm glad everybody (who's indeed managed to keep their jobs) gets paid on time but I guess that would be the case at their local Lancia garage as well.
red bull are evil and I refuse to budge on this one
Of course, you can support who you want RJ. I certainly don't support 'Toro Rosso' but then supporting a name is pretty hollow too.
All GCM had for the last five years was a desk at Faenza and someone else trading on his name. That is, arguably, a worse state of affairs than now. Does it not mean anything that the people at Faenza and their families have some stability in their lives?
you see that's all very cool and well but as I said job security might be a feature at your local tesco as well and I don't see that as being extraordinary. nor is it altruistic on behalf of red bull. the fact that most of the foreign people got axed as if they were puerto rican janitors is too clear an indication that most people still have their jobs thanks to italian employment laws rather than anything else. ex minardi people found employment at ferrari, toyota, williams and other teams and it's nothing different at scuderia stronzi austriaci.
regarding your question what's in a name: it wasn't even gcm that it was all about (though emmo might disagree here), it was the team that minardi was. If you ask what Minardi stood for over the last 10 years: Rumi and Briatore blended in rather well and from 97 to 2000 the team built very good cars for the budget they had. People like Cesare Fiorio, Gustav Brunner did an amazing job and were respected throughout the paddock as they came up with true technical innovations. Then Stoddie came along, not as much as a "show up, shut up" type but still an amiable one. Sure the 2003 and 2004 seasons were a very, very exasperating display for the fans but that was down to 9/11 as much as anything else. The PS05 was a half decent car, not as good as the Brunner ones at the turn of the century but still good enough to be called a racing car and certainly not a regurgitated Jaguar. Minardi was also about the drivers as they combined a range of characters such as Katayama, Mazzacane, Tuero with a lot of talents such as Fisichella, Webber (I don't need to tell you, you all know this).
Scuderia Fighe Rotte only let's untalented twats who suck up to big daddy mateschitz have a go (Mathias Lauda, need I say more???). oh yeah, they're all very cool of course and have sexy stubbles.
just noticed the post that canadian minardistas had to take off their minardi gear when they came to visit their friends at str. need i say more?
I don't see why we should show support for STR. Its like feeling obligated a Proton because you were a Chapman fan.
And yes Viges, Minardi may have had many owners over the years, but it always remained a small independant team (as in "teamwork" not "team pty ltd spa). STR, on the other hand, is a marketing concept owned by a multi-national corporation. Not very "Minardi".
Personally I still like the guys in the garages and will support them. I suppose my problem is that it becomes difficult to "support" a "B" team that the owner DOES NOT WANT to win. makes it difficult for us americans who like to WIN you see.
just noticed the post that canadian minardistas had to take off their minardi gear when they came to visit their friends at str. need i say more?
I'm the same, I can't believe this actually happened, and don't really understand why the visitors were so damn accomodating to the request. Is it STR Montreal or Minardi Montreal?
Did they fire off a 'please explain' to the STR PR people, or are they too afraid they wont get a pass next year? ;)
I expected I would slowly become an STR fan by default, but just hasn't happened. They just don't have the undefinable thing that made Minardi Minardi. It's not the name, it's the attitude. At present STR don't have it, though maybe Berger will change that in time.
I was pretty proud of the team from '99 to '02. It's true the later years were at times dreadful, particularly 2004, where they weren't even trying. But last year showed some of the fire was still there.
We did, and still do, hate the crafty old vulture Briatore, don't we? I thought that was a fundamental tenet of Minardifandom. Rumi fought him off, ran the team with a degree of partnership, and chucked in a lot of his own money, before escalating costs backed him into a corner. Same as Stoddart, really, in his own way.
Minardi P1, let's all note that this affected 3 people for the most part.. at most the rest where requested to remove our hats etc.... I think people are really making more out of this than is necessary.
...and with regard to saying "thank you, we'll leave" ah, sorry dude, this was the first time my 7 year old ever went to a GP and I, for one, was not really prepared to take some sort of stand on this issue given it really did not affect my clothing choice. Christ, some people are acting like religious zealots on this topic.
Originally posted by bernie Minardi P1, let's all note that this affected 3 people for the most part.. at most the rest where requested to remove our hats etc.... I think people are really making more out of this than is necessary.
...and with regard to saying "thank you, we'll leave" ah, sorry dude, this was the first time my 7 year old ever went to a GP and I, for one, was not really prepared to take some sort of stand on this issue given it really did not affect my clothing choice. Christ, some people are acting like religious zealots on this topic.
I agree with you Bernie, people are making more out of this than it was. Considering I never expected to get in the teams pits in the first place I don't care one bit that they didn't want the minardi logo there. As a fan of motorsports first, I would rather be in the pits than not, doesn't matter what teams pits to me either.
I don't care for the STR management but will continue to support to ex-Minardi guys that work there along with supporting Minardi F3000 and whenever he makes the jump to GP2.
As Emmo hasn't had a chance to reply I hope he will forgive me for posting this but here goes here is Massimo's reason for the montreal story. The guys relates to Bernie and Co.
"I WAS VERY HAPPY TO SEE "YOUR GUYS"! I WAS TOO SORRY TO ASK THEM TO HIDE MINARDI SHIRTS. IT WAS VERY HARD FOR ME TO TELL THEM AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, BUT I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A COMPLETELY NEW PROPERTY. RED BULL IN PARTICULAR DOESN'T LOOK A THE PAST, BUT JUST AT THE FUTURE. I KNOW IT SOUNDS BAD, BUT I HAVE NO ALTERNATIVES. I TOLD YOUR GUYS TO KEEP MINARDI IN THEIR HEART (THE SAME I DO)!"
Ger, It was obvious the way Massimo presented it that it was rather heartwrenching fo rhim to ask. That does not change the fact that I felt the joy and commaraderie watching the team faces I knew cheering as they tossed Luizzi in the air on SPEED tv at Indy. Our friends, whom many of us have supported through thick and thin, recognized the hard work they have done, with little to no budget, are finally, with an influx of cash, celebrating their very hard work and deserve our support and recognition. Outside of GCM, Roberta, James and some others who where key players in the organization it still comes down to the grunts who worked knee deep in the shit with no promise of a future and hung in there, who are finally moving up the grid. Regardless of how others feel, regardless of who drives for them, regardless of who owns them, I have to say that I will still support the TEAM members who I respect for their hard work and dedication.
AS Massimo said to me when he finished explaining the shirt issue:
"ForzaMinardi!"
"In war it is not men, but the man who counts." -Napolean
Reading Massimo's quote, you have to come to the conclusion that they are great staff working for a crap company. But it does at least prove that RedBull remain scared of us, yes?
The Minardi Club San Francisco was founded to support Gian Carlo Minardi and the Team he assembled around him in their quest for excellence in motorsport. Our stance on this has not nor will change.
That being said we have friends who still work for STR. I will not throw away the many years and good times I have had with them. STR does not want us but our friends are our friends. Do you turn your back on your friends because they change employers? I don't. I will be glad and look forward to seeing them at Monza. In the pits or not as we will be going to Faenza after the race to see some of them on a personal basis.
Actually we will be returning to the Tana del Lupo on the outskirts of Faenza - hopefully for breakfast lunch and dinner. The only formulas I am interested in are the ones that involve either garlic, grilled meats, red wine or any combination of the three!
Originally posted by MCSF Actually we will be returning to the Tana del Lupo on the outskirts of Faenza - hopefully for breakfast lunch and dinner. The only formulas I am interested in are the ones that involve either garlic, grilled meats, red wine or any combination of the three!
And of course how do they make that Lemoncello!!! Looking forward to it!!!!!!!!!!!!
On the one hand, they take obvious pleasure in a press release that makes fun of the French taking themselves too seriously, and yet on the other they apply a uniform discipline on their fans.
One could argue that poking fun (cruelly, it should be stressed) at Herr Hitler having his pickie taken in front of the Arch of Triumph is a clear case of looking backward; not forward as suggested by their hyperbole.
I'm all for this irreverant jousting at national stereotypes, but consistency counts and the removal of Minardi gear is crap.
Good morning sir, and welcome to the Nike factory tour. Please assist us to feel comfortable by removing our competitor's product from your feet.
or perhaps more appropriately;
Sir would like to change his Lire to Euros? I'm afraid we look forward always. Never backwards.
What was it - Those who forget the mistakes of the past.................................................?
Jaguar left because FoMoCo needed too - I'm sure Pitchforth and Purnell would not have described it as voluntary. JYS is a canny operator, and made a killing when the market was high.
The difference with Tyrrell and Jordan is that Minardi lives! Lives on in the shadows, it may be true, but ready, ready for the day when evil can be defeated and true sportsmanship, strong coffee and smart paint jobs will reign again. We have a different role in F1's Wagnerian drama from those other ex teams.
The Stoddart period was a strange dream, not all bad, but nevertheless not one from which one might wake up refreshed.
Comments
red bull are evil and I refuse to budge on this one
[Edited on 16-7-06 by forzaminardi]
All GCM had for the last five years was a desk at Faenza and someone else trading on his name. That is, arguably, a worse state of affairs than now. Does it not mean anything that the people at Faenza and their families have some stability in their lives?
regarding your question what's in a name: it wasn't even gcm that it was all about (though emmo might disagree here), it was the team that minardi was. If you ask what Minardi stood for over the last 10 years: Rumi and Briatore blended in rather well and from 97 to 2000 the team built very good cars for the budget they had. People like Cesare Fiorio, Gustav Brunner did an amazing job and were respected throughout the paddock as they came up with true technical innovations. Then Stoddie came along, not as much as a "show up, shut up" type but still an amiable one. Sure the 2003 and 2004 seasons were a very, very exasperating display for the fans but that was down to 9/11 as much as anything else. The PS05 was a half decent car, not as good as the Brunner ones at the turn of the century but still good enough to be called a racing car and certainly not a regurgitated Jaguar. Minardi was also about the drivers as they combined a range of characters such as Katayama, Mazzacane, Tuero with a lot of talents such as Fisichella, Webber (I don't need to tell you, you all know this).
Scuderia Fighe Rotte only let's untalented twats who suck up to big daddy mateschitz have a go (Mathias Lauda, need I say more???). oh yeah, they're all very cool of course and have sexy stubbles.
just noticed the post that canadian minardistas had to take off their minardi gear when they came to visit their friends at str. need i say more?
Its like feeling obligated a Proton because you were a Chapman fan.
And yes Viges, Minardi may have had many owners over the years, but it always remained a small independant team (as in "teamwork" not "team pty ltd spa).
STR, on the other hand, is a marketing concept owned by a multi-national corporation. Not very "Minardi".
Did they fire off a 'please explain' to the STR PR people, or are they too afraid they wont get a pass next year? ;)
I was pretty proud of the team from '99 to '02. It's true the later years were at times dreadful, particularly 2004, where they weren't even trying. But last year showed some of the fire was still there.
We did, and still do, hate the crafty old vulture Briatore, don't we? I thought that was a fundamental tenet of Minardifandom. Rumi fought him off, ran the team with a degree of partnership, and chucked in a lot of his own money, before escalating costs backed him into a corner. Same as Stoddart, really, in his own way.
...and with regard to saying "thank you, we'll leave" ah, sorry dude, this was the first time my 7 year old ever went to a GP and I, for one, was not really prepared to take some sort of stand on this issue given it really did not affect my clothing choice. Christ, some people are acting like religious zealots on this topic.
I sense a walkout.
I don't care for the STR management but will continue to support to ex-Minardi guys that work there along with supporting Minardi F3000 and whenever he makes the jump to GP2.
"I WAS VERY HAPPY TO SEE "YOUR GUYS"! I WAS TOO SORRY TO ASK THEM TO HIDE MINARDI SHIRTS. IT WAS VERY HARD FOR ME TO TELL THEM AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, BUT I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A COMPLETELY NEW PROPERTY. RED BULL IN PARTICULAR DOESN'T LOOK A THE PAST, BUT JUST AT THE FUTURE. I KNOW IT SOUNDS BAD, BUT I HAVE NO ALTERNATIVES. I TOLD YOUR GUYS TO KEEP MINARDI IN THEIR HEART (THE SAME I DO)!"
Last line says it all.
[Edited on 16-7-0606 by Ger]
At least from a bad thing, (STR take over), a good thing emerged, and for once in F1, I am feeling like a winner and my team wins!
I felt very satisfied supporting MInardi even though we came last, but supposting STR? Nah! Nil! NO! NEIN!
Ger, It was obvious the way Massimo presented it that it was rather heartwrenching fo rhim to ask. That does not change the fact that I felt the joy and commaraderie watching the team faces I knew cheering as they tossed Luizzi in the air on SPEED tv at Indy. Our friends, whom many of us have supported through thick and thin, recognized the hard work they have done, with little to no budget, are finally, with an influx of cash, celebrating their very hard work and deserve our support and recognition. Outside of GCM, Roberta, James and some others who where key players in the organization it still comes down to the grunts who worked knee deep in the shit with no promise of a future and hung in there, who are finally moving up the grid. Regardless of how others feel, regardless of who drives for them, regardless of who owns them, I have to say that I will still support the TEAM members who I respect for their hard work and dedication.
AS Massimo said to me when he finished explaining the shirt issue:
"ForzaMinardi!"
"In war it is not men, but the man who counts."
-Napolean
[Edited on 16-7-06 by bernie]
That being said we have friends who still work for STR. I will not throw away the many years and good times I have had with them. STR does not want us but our friends are our friends. Do you turn your back on your friends because they change employers? I don't. I will be glad and look forward to seeing them at Monza. In the pits or not as we will be going to Faenza after the race to see some of them on a personal basis.
On the one hand, they take obvious pleasure in a press release that makes fun of the French taking themselves too seriously, and yet on the other they apply a uniform discipline on their fans.
One could argue that poking fun (cruelly, it should be stressed) at Herr Hitler having his pickie taken in front of the Arch of Triumph is a clear case of looking backward; not forward as suggested by their hyperbole.
I'm all for this irreverant jousting at national stereotypes, but consistency counts and the removal of Minardi gear is crap.
Good morning sir, and welcome to the Nike factory tour. Please assist us to feel comfortable by removing our competitor's product from your feet.
or perhaps more appropriately;
Sir would like to change his Lire to Euros? I'm afraid we look forward always. Never backwards.
What was it - Those who forget the mistakes of the past.................................................?
Tyrrell disappeared.
Stewart and then Jaguar vanished.
What about Jordan?
The difference with Tyrrell and Jordan is that Minardi lives! Lives on in the shadows, it may be true, but ready, ready for the day when evil can be defeated and true sportsmanship, strong coffee and smart paint jobs will reign again. We have a different role in F1's Wagnerian drama from those other ex teams.
The Stoddart period was a strange dream, not all bad, but nevertheless not one from which one might wake up refreshed.