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I thought it was against Islam to make a deal with the infidel?
Bin Laden Offers Truce in Purported Tape
Jan 19 10:24 AM US/Eastern
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CAIRO, Egypt
Al-Jazeera aired an audiotape purportedly from Osama bin Laden on Thursday, saying al-Qaida is making preparations for attacks in the United States but offering a truce to build Iraq and Afghanistan.
The voice in the tape said heightened security measures in the United States are not the reason there have been no attacks there since Sept. 11, 2001. Instead, the reason is "because there are operations that need preparations, and you will see them," he said.
"Based on what I have said, it is better not to fight the Muslims on their land," he said. "We do not mind offering you a truce that is fair and long-term. ... So we can build Iraq and Afghanistan ... there is no shame in this solution because it prevents wasting of billions of dollars ... to merchants of war."
The speaker did not give conditions for a truce in the excerpts aired by Al-Jazeera.
Comments
The US should set up a meeting.
Just agree the time, place and exact coordinates......
:D:D :hehe:
Spin
Seriously, IF the tape is genuine, it suggests an attack may be imminent, and UBL is setting the background for support.
He knows the US will not agree, neither he nor W wants a truce.
But have you read the comments on this tape. I am appalled at the naivite of many US hopefuls who think that Bin Laden is getting scared or beaten. Some even suggest he spends all his time trying to evade the missile attack and has no time to plan an attack. If he spends an hour a day on defending or moving his position, and another 5 praying, lets see, that leaves at least 12 hours for coordination and oversight of operations.
Hey that's more than W spends on the job.
Spin
[Edited on 20/1/2006 by Dr_Spin]
Do you have any knowledge of this and if it is true could that be what OBL is trying to do - he made mention that he cannot lie due to his religion but...
e.g. "Sorry I'm late dear I was at the mosque"
On this, though, I would take UBL at his word.
UBL knows W better than W knows him, and would be certain that there would be no truce deal. Even if there was, it would mean little, as both sides would always be able to find a breach by "the other side" to justify resumption of hostilities.
The sorry fact is that much as the WhiteHouse claims they don't deal with terrorists, they are reacting to what they do.
The solution to this sorry state is to act correctly on your own accord, and let the enemy wither for want of a cause.
The Challenge for America (and their allies) is this! ...............
First define the problem:
How can America beat the enemy extremists?
It wouldn’t be a problem if America stopped shooting itself in the foot.
The contest is essentially between the world’s richest and most technologically advanced nation, on the one hand, and individuals and small cells of people with little more than a commitment to hurt the superpower.
So what is the answer?
Destroy or defuse that commitment.
You can’t do that by simply killing people, because that’s what fuels the cycle.
It’s a mind game, and America must ask why with all its superiority to the relatively simple minds and resources of the typical insurgent, it fails in this game.
Basically America needs to be more god-like. Avoid the mistakes and failures which kill innocent people and even the not so innocent who have their loyal families and followers. Instead target high value targets for occasional unexpected deadly strikes, executed with the precision of a NASA mission, with guaranteed success and zero collateral damage.
Reclaim the moral high ground by addressing faults in Government policy and actions which conflict with the profile of the world’s leading nation and promoter of human values.
Let potential insurgents ask themselves, why would I support al qaeda when they are trying to hurt the great forces for good.
That’s the theory! Now what is really happening?
America cannot achieve the above until it overcomes the self-righteousness that says, “we are already right in all that we do”. That self-righteousness is in fact too similar to the self-righteousness expressed by their proclaimed enemy.
What would America have to give up to become the necessary model of leadership?
ANSWER: a few bad things which the average good American doesn’t like anyway, exploitation, torture, unnecessary killing, cultural ignorance and excessive arrogance, sloppy planning, and over-sensitivity to criticism.
What would America gain? Almost everything that most Americans crave, wealth, respect, prestige, position and security.
Who would lose? Bin Laden, Al Zawahiri, Al Zarqawi, and those who need to portray the west as against the people and against Islam.
Spin
Get rid of Bush and BinLaden in one hit !!:D
Doc - once again the ideas you ut forth are worth merit but once again they all require the US/the "West" to make all the changes. In light of what my Father used to say what does radical Islam - hell regular Islam- need to bring to the table in order to make this deal?
http://www.grunt.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=76966
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."
President Theodore Roosevelt
"Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 191
We celebrated the wedding of my lovely step-daughter with our friends and relatives from around the world.
One highlight of the day was the singing of popular songs during the service by one of our leading Malay actress and singer. Other Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, also attended the church service in a Christian Church.
I work with Muslim professionals and respect these people as friends and colleagues.
Life in Malaysia isn't all tolerance, sweetness and beauty, but when you work at this, there are successes.
Now to comment on Emmetts question "what does radical Islam - hell regular Islam- need to bring to the table in order to make this deal?"
First get your own house in order, invite those who can apreciate the goodness of what you do, and the message will spread.
Reducing yourself to the level of your enemies is not a formula for success that I recognise. Although the US certainly has not intended to do this, it does at times get dragged down, and its current crop of leaders lacked the wisdom to see how this would happen.
On UBL, I would study his tape, redouble efforts to address legitimate criticisms and move on with doing the positive things the world needs. There have been plenty of suggestions as to how the USA could spend it's billions to better effect. UBL isn't the only terrorist around and when he goes there will be others, but the problem is how to reduce the risks.
To do that you have to stop breeding and encouraging bad guys, because they breed faster than you can kill them.
You also have to look at the bad guys in your wn system.
That arsehole "Whiethouse spokesman" who intends to "educate" Americans to understand why their government has to spy on their phone conversations could be replaced by someone who understands that he is supposed to serve the public and understand the Constitution.
To defeat terrorism, defeat the wrongs in your own system.
Our Western civilsation has evolved over centuries to reach the stage where most problems can be soled peacefully.
But we have to be careful, very careful, of those who want to fast-track their own success at the expense of others following the law of the jungle. We shouldn't allow those people to acquire obscene power in business or politics.
That's another challenge facing the US.
I'm not making up this stuff about wrongs in the current system. If any readers here can't see these, they should increase their knowledge of what is going on.
And Bernie, if you want to sweat a bit, take on the challenges, work till you nearly drop, come to Malaysia!
Guys, gotta go now, another reception, another round and hopefully a cold beer with my fellow jungle dwellers!
Spin
Here is my starting list:
1. Islamic leaders from all over the world and from every sect meet and make an announcement that it is OK NOT to be a Muslum and that any act of violence or terror against another human being based on the fact that they are not Muslum is a sin.
I'd suggest starting with the slaughter of Christians in the Sudan.
2. Clean up the Madrassa system and make it a sin to teach hate.
3. Make a statement that recognizes Israels right to exist.
4. Pass the hat and sort out the financial woes of Palestine - it seems thay are broke again and the level of unemployment is rising which leads to much of the unrest we see in that region.
Answer: It wouldn't matter how many, unless first the light bulb wants to change.
What EQ suggests is a perfectly reasonable basis for one side of a deal between
a) the world's most populous and growing religion
b) the worlds richest nation
The US, Britain, Israel, Germany, France, Russia, China,
Japan, Australia, Vatican, etc. would also agree similar terms, i.e.
1. It is OK to be a Muslum or any other faith and that any act of violence or terror against another human being based on the fact that they are Muslum is a sin.
We may need to agree on an international law to which leaders would be accountable.
I'd suggest starting with the slaughter of civilians during hostilities.
2. make it a sin to teach hate or declare whole nations to be evil
3. Make a statement that recognizes peoples right to exist.
4. Develop strategies to reduce poverty and desperation among disadvantaged people.
Would this ever see the light?
First the light bulb has got to want to change.
That's a tall order.
In the meantime, what's stopping the leader of the free world from making a start, which as i've argued would be all to its own advantage.
Seems a guy called William Blum, has pointed out a lot of places to start in his books.
Or are we going to swiftboat Mr Blum?
It might be an interesting idea to separate Mr Blums arguments and examples from the odium of a clear association of ideas with UBL. We could think about their merit free of prejudice.
That would say something about our respect for freedom of expression and capacity for analysis and self-criticism.
Spin
[Edited on 22/1/2006 by Dr_Spin]
I don't think the wedding couple know Cela.
BTW, it's fun living in a police state.
Within 5 minutes of the first sky rocket going up we had a police helicopter with search light approaching from the city. Just out of range it then circled to our left.
We fired 4 more and 1 minute later had the police outside on the road below.
They didn't bother us as they may not have been sure what VIPs were present.
Now I'll just go and check if they're outside now!
BTW, Simon, we even had a "Go KL" PS02 on show, but it wasn't used as a getaway car.
Spin ;)