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What is your point Jello? I am sure it was a glitch - just l;ike all the times, during important speeches that Leftists give, technical errors occur.
Just the other day when that loser Dem quitter was giving his hour long story of doom and gloom CNN showed some flying elephants circling around his head.
just ot piss ya off: (and BTW I don't subscribe to the below opinions but it's serves as a nice counterpoint to the right wing fanatism of Rush and the other shock jocks who only tell half the damn story
http://shows.airamericaradio.com/mikemalloy/node/37 Thursday, Nov 17th: Dick Cheney is a Coward Dick Cheney is a coward. Worse, he is a coward who is in a position of power from which he has duped and lied his nation into war. He has done so, vigorously and maliciously. Cheney and the murderous collection of warmongers with whom he operates -- known variously as Republicans, neoconservatives, Christian conservatives, American Zionists, etc. – have successfully engineered the US into a war in which we never should have been involved. Until very recently, most of the country’s politicians have supported this war because of the carefully constructed lies fed to the media, the public, and the world regarding the remote possibility that Iraq posed a threat to the US or might further destabilize an already twitching and bloody Middle East. The lies are now coming unraveled. The political opposition finally is realizing the extent to which the Bush Crime Family – controlled and manipulated by its two senior members, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld – manipulated intelligence and information and manufactured a web of deceit that has now taken the lives of tens of thousands of Iraqis and over two thousand US soldiers and Marines. Not surprisingly, when Dick Cheney was called upon to serve in his generation’s war, he refused. He dodged and hid and gamed the system of deferments, including using his wife’s fortuitous pregnancy, until he was out of range of his draft board. As Cheney so proudly boasted years later, “I had other priorities in the 60s.” As is so often the case with Republican Chicken-hawks, the most vocal advocates of war are those who hid from service themselves, and now insist there is an obligation for the husbands, sons, and fathers – and now wives, mothers and daughters - to participate in the killing and risk being killed themselves in a war started because of greed, lies, fraud and cowardice. Pennsylvania Democratic Representative John Murtha who, unlike Cheney and most of the Republican leadership, served in the military and is a decorated Marine combat veteran of the Vietnam war, has today called for an immediate withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. "It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf region," Mr. Murtha said during an emotional news conference on Capitol Hill. His remarks were quickly denounced by House Republicans - the chicken-hawks, the cowards, the liars -- as defeatist and wrongheaded. Murtha added, "Our troops have become the primary target for the insurgency (and the insurgents) are united against US forces . . . we have become a catalyst for violence." He went on to say that, before the Iraqi elections in December, the country's people and its emerging government "must be put on notice that the United States will immediately redeploy. All of Iraq must know that Iraq is free," he said. "Free from United States occupation." Join me tonight for the discussion of Mr. Murtha's critically important comments.-MM
now isnt that a bit lopsided? I have heard both the full interview on meet the press with Murtha (who I have spoken to on a number of occassions in his district) and the full AEI speech by the VP... Both of these guys apolgized to each other but yet neither side of the far right or far left media covered that. Way wrong guy to pick on in Murtha. He is the definition of HAWK.
Job: Congressman for Pennsylvania's 12th Congressional District
Age: 73, born in New Martinsville, West Virginia
Education: Left college to join the Marines, but later received a B.A. in Economics at the University of Pittsburgh.
Life and Career Highlights:
* Left college in 1952 to join the Marines, where he served during the Korean War and eventually rose in rank to captain
* After his discharge from active duty, Murtha reenlisted and volunteered to serve in Vietnam in 1966-67, where he won two purple hearts, a Bronze Star with Combat "V" and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry.
* After a five-year stint in Pennsylvania's House, in 1974 Murtha was elected to the U.S Congress, the first Vietnam combat veteran to win a seat in Congress.
*As a member of the House Appropriations Committee, Murtha quickly built a track record of support for the military, voting consistently for money for both active duty soldiers and veterans.
*Breaking ranks with many Democrats, Murtha backed President Reagan's incursions in Central America in the 1980s.
*Among the most fervent backers of the 1991 Gulf War with Iraq, Murtha worked closely with President George H.W. Bush to gain support for the war in Congress.
*In September, 2002, Murtha voiced grave doubts about President George W. Bush's plans for war, complaining that he has not built a proper coalition and estimating the war will cost taxpayers at least $50 billion. He nonetheless voted later to authorize the war With Iraq.
*In May 2004, Murtha joined fellow Democrats in criticizing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld for his role in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. But he stopped short of calling for Rumsfeld to resign, as other Democrats do.
*In the fall of 2005, he led a House effort to pass the so-called McCain Amendment, a measure that would expressly prohibit "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment of terror suspects
During the 2004 vice presidential debate, when he was asked what he could do about the "deeply divided electorate," Dick Cheney acknowledged that it was a "disappointment," and went on to say that things used to be different. "One of my strongest allies in Congress when I was secretary of defense was Jack Murtha, a Democrat who was chairman of the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee." http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5018733
Office of the Vice President November 21, 2005 Vice President's Remarks on the War on Terror American Enterprise Institute Washington, D.C. 11:01 A.M. EST "My remarks today concern national security, in particular the war on terror and the Iraq front in that war. Several days ago, I commented briefly on some recent statements that have been made by some members of Congress about Iraq. Within hours of my speech, a report went out on the wires under the headline, "Cheney says war critics 'dishonest,' 'reprehensible.'"
One thing I've learned in the last five years is that when you're Vice President, you're lucky if your speeches get any attention at all. But I do have a quarrel with that headline, and it's important to make this point at the outset. I do not believe it is wrong to criticize the war on terror or any aspect thereof. Disagreement, argument, and debate are the essence of democracy, and none of us should want it any other way. For my part, I've spent a career in public service, run for office eight times -- six statewide offices and twice nationally. I served in the House of Representatives for better than a decade, most of that time as a member of the leadership of the minority party. To me, energetic debate on issues facing our country is more than just a sign of a healthy political system -- it's also something I enjoy. It's one of the reasons I've stayed in this business. And I believe the feeling is probably the same for most of us in public life.
For those of us who don't mind debating, there's plenty to keep us busy these days, and it's not likely to change any time soon. On the question of national security, feelings run especially strong, and there are deeply held differences of opinion on how best to protect the United States and our friends against the dangers of our time. Recently my friend and former colleague Jack Murtha called for a complete withdrawal of American forces now serving in Iraq, with a drawdown to begin at once. I disagree with Jack and believe his proposal would not serve the best interests of this nation. But he's a good man, a Marine, a patriot -- and he's taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion.
Nor is there any problem with debating whether the United States and our allies should have liberated Iraq in the first place. Here, as well, the differing views are very passionately and forcefully stated. But nobody is saying we should not be having this discussion, or that you cannot reexamine a decision made by the President and the Congress some years ago. To the contrary, I believe it is critical that we continue to remind ourselves why this nation took action, and why Iraq is the central front in the war on terror, and why we have a duty to persevere."....
ANd now for some Murtha Comments: White House spars with critics Vice President Dick Cheney jumped into the fray Wednesday by assailing Democrats who contend the Bush administration manipulated intelligence on Iraq, calling their criticism “one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city.”
Murtha, a Marine intelligence officer in Vietnam, angrily shot back at Cheney: “I like guys who’ve never been there that criticize us who’ve been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don’t like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done.”
Cheney calls war critics ‘opportunists’
The top Democrat on the House Appropriations defense subcommittee, Murtha has earned bipartisan respect for his grasp of military issues over three decades in Congress. He planned to introduce a resolution Thursday that, if passed by both the House and the Senate, would force the president to withdraw U.S. troops....
...First elected to Congress in 1974, Murtha is known as an ally of uniformed officers in the Pentagon and on the battlefield. The perception on Capitol Hill is that when the congressman makes a statement on military issues, he’s talking for those in uniform.
Known to shun publicity, Murtha said he was standing up because he had a constitutional and moral obligation to speak for the troops.
His voice cracked and tears filled his eyes as he related several stories of visiting wounded troops, including one who was blinded and lost both his hands but had been denied a Purple Heart because friendly fire caused his injuries.
“I met with the commandant. I said, ‘If you don’t give him a Purple Heart, I’ll give him one of mine.’ And they gave him a Purple Heart,” said Murtha, who has two.
I cannot find the transcript but Murtha stated everything that the VP restated on Monday at AEI. Murtha said this is nto about partisan politics and that he is friends with Cheney. When asked about the attack by the freshman congresswoman from Ohio. Murtha said that he bore no ill will and that there where certain conservatives in the Republican camp that viewed everything as a republicna vs. a democrat issue. He felt that she was just new and corruptable and that he understood how she might have wanted to say this for the media. He was not there to address it nor was he offended. Murtha is one of those few men you meat whom you cannot help but admire as he is standard that we try to admire in elected officials. When Rebublicans tried to gerrymander his district a number of years of Republicans IN HIS DISTRICT changed thier party affiliation to a DEM jsut so Murtha would stay as their congressman.
Murtha said on Meet the Press that we would be out of Iraq by next year at this time.
I have met Jack. I have his chief aids phone and email on my phone. He should be taken very seriously.
from the NY Times: By HASSAN M. FATTAH Published: November 22, 2005 CAIRO, Nov. 21 - For the first time, Iraq's political factions on Monday collectively called for a timetable for withdrawal of foreign forces, in a moment of consensus that comes as the Bush administration battles pressure at home to commit itself to a pullout schedule.
The announcement, made at the conclusion of a reconciliation conference here backed by the Arab League, was a public reaching out by Shiites, who now dominate Iraq's government, to Sunni Arabs on the eve of parliamentary elections that have been put on shaky ground by weeks of sectarian violence.
About 100 Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish leaders, many of whom will run in the election on Dec. 15, signed a closing memorandum on Monday that "demands a withdrawal of foreign troops on a specified timetable, dependent on an immediate national program for rebuilding the security forces," the statement said....."
I know you. I know him. You guys are way too much alike in philosophy to say that. on top of that you both would probably agree on 90% of the discussions. I am defending hiim as I would you my friend.
As I recall Sepp also visited the Spa and Malmedy area...although he didn't take kindly to US servicemen.
I think it was called the Malmedy Massacre...and then there was that trial in Nuremburg:spank:
I appeeciate that Bernie but seems everyone is making a rock star oout of this guy.
Yes he was a soldier and a warrior. No doubt. He has a wealth of knowledge and experience to draw from.
But he also is a partisan politician.
He seems to be having trouble figuring out which hat to wear. A soldier learns early that one praises in public and scolds in private - for the most part anyways. Especially on BIG issues.
A politician, by nature, can't keep his/her mouth shut and one of ther most dangerous places in the world to be is between a politician and a microphone.
Whether he intended it or not Murtha gave ammo to our enemies by coming oput with this walkin away plan. He may not have used those EXACT words but what was on front pages around the world?
Immediate Withdrawl.
Talk about a propoganda boost to the enemy.
Does he make good points? Yes of course he did and still does. But to grandstand like he did was just a dumb thing to do - and that is why I called him Pelosi's bitch.
Had our politicians acted this way during WWII the outcome would have been very different.
Instead of lauding this guy whay don't you take a look at the other true warrior - the one who gave the last words prior to that vote fridfay night.
I can't recall his name.
His military record is different but just as valid as Murtha's. Why don't we talk about what he said and believes.
Oh, because it backs the president and our troops.
There should be open dialogue. Rather interesting developments in Iraq that are nto getting coverage. The recent agreement made between the Shia, Sunni and Kurd elements, and the request we remove our troops by the end of 2006, and the trip to Iran and the agreements by the Iranians to stay of of Iraqi affairs and stop inciting... probably helped that the guy who did the negotiating was the former head of security for Saddam...all without US knowledge/
I disagree.
Murtha knows too much. I have my suspicians that this is more coordinated than you might think. I recently reviewed an email I got back on 26 Sept from a former instructor at West Point and officer in the Air Force....long before current developments...he advised me then that he expected a full withdrawal prior to 2006 elections... go figure.
Schmidt in war of words Rookie lawmaker's 'coward' remarks ricochet
By Malia Rulon Enquirer Washington Bureau WASHINGTON - Three days after Rep. Jean Schmidt was booed off the House floor for saying that "cowards cut and run, Marines never do," the Ohioan she quoted disputed the comments.
Danny Bubp, a freshman state representative who is a colonel in the Marine Corps Reserve, told The Enquirer that he never mentioned Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., by name when talking with Schmidt, and he would never call a fellow Marine a coward.
"The unfortunate thing about all of that is that her choice of words on the floor of the House - I don't know, she's a freshman, she had one minute.
"Unfortunately, they came out wrong," said Bubp, R-West Union.
Lawmakers were in the midst of a passionate debate Friday over whether to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq, an issue pushed to a vote by Republicans after public comments from Murtha.
Schmidt - decked out in a red-white-and-blue suit that resembled the U.S. flag - went to the floor and quoted from a telephone conversation with Bubp: "He asked me to send Congress a message: Stay the course.
"He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message: That cowards cut and run, Marines never do."
The comment drew a chorus of boos and shouting from Democrats.
It's unclear whether Schmidt, who will start her 79th day in the House today, knew at the time of her remarks that Murtha had served 37 years in the Marine Corps and Marine Corps Reserve. She immediately took back her remarks. It's against House rules to refer to a fellow lawmaker by name or to criticize them.
Schmidt, a Republican from Clermont County's Miami Township, then wrote to Murtha to explain that she has a lot to learn and did not mean to disparage his service.
Bubp, who has served in the Marine Corps Reserve for 27 years, including three years of active duty, said he called Schmidt on Friday afternoon to discuss the resolution that called for the immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq - not to talk about Murtha.
The House nonbinding resolution failed by a 403-3 vote.
"There was no discussion of him personally being a coward or about any person being a coward," Bubp said. "My message to the folks in Washington, D.C., and to all the Congress people up there, is to stay the course. We cannot leave Iraq or cut and run - any terminology that you want to use."
Still, Bubp said the whole thing has been blown out of proportion.
There's one thing wrong with the argument that dissent empowers or encourages the enemy.
The enemy that the US and allies have in their sights are dedicated, passionate extremists who don't need encouragement. It is quite doubtful that they actually know what is truly being debated in Washington and elsewhere. They would be aware of what their leaders tell them, which will be lies and distortions in any case.
Now the people who should be considered in this argument are the very large population of supporters, sympathisers, undecided or open-minded observers.
Mostly, they know that the US went in to this brashly, ignoring advice and pursuing hopelessly incompetent strategies, if there was a real strategy for peace in the first place. Most of these have been waiting a long time for a correction from the US leadership. They have been waiting a long time to see democracy and free speech at work in the congress and media. They see balanced argument coming from commentators around the world including those with decades of experience and knowledge in the ME region.
In the US the see debate stifled by this false argument that questioning will empower the enemy.
I ask.....what then does that say about democracy, or the US Constitution or the principles of checks and balances?
Now if all that can be suspended on the basis the the US is at war so different rules apply, .....then there needs to be a lot more debate and consideration before that decision is made, before it was made.
Was America asked if it was prepared to suspend it's Constitution, citizen's rights to free speech without being declared unpatriotic, servicemen's right's to the leave and protection, etc. in order to relieve Saddam of his rule?
CNN OPERATOR FIRED AFTER SUGGESTING 'X' OVER CHENEY WAS 'FREE SPEECH'
A CNN switchboard operator was fired over the holiday -- after the operator claimed the 'X' placed over Vice President's Dick Cheney's face was "free speech!"
"We did it just to make a point. Tell them to stop lying, Bush and Cheney," the CNN operator said to a caller. "Bring our soldiers home."
The caller initially phoned the network to complain about the all-news channel flashing an "X' over Cheney as he gave an address live from Washington.
"Was it not freedom of speech? Yes or No?" the CNN operator explained.
"If you don't like it, don't watch."
Laurie Goldberg, Senior Vice President for Public Relations with CNN, said in a release:
"A Turner switchboard operator was fired today after we were alerted to a conversation the operator had with a caller in which the operator lost his temper and expressed his personal views -- behavior that was totally inappropriate. His comments did not reflect the views of CNN. We are reaching out to the caller and expressing our deep regret to her and apologizing that she did not get the courtesy entitled to her. "
Comments
Just the other day when that loser Dem quitter was giving his hour long story of doom and gloom CNN showed some flying elephants circling around his head.
Happens all the time.
just ot piss ya off: (and BTW I don't subscribe to the below opinions but it's serves as a nice counterpoint to the right wing fanatism of Rush and the other shock jocks who only tell half the damn story
http://shows.airamericaradio.com/mikemalloy/node/37
Thursday, Nov 17th: Dick Cheney is a Coward
Dick Cheney is a coward. Worse, he is a coward who is in a position of power from which he has duped and lied his nation into war. He has done so, vigorously and maliciously. Cheney and the murderous collection of warmongers with whom he operates -- known variously as Republicans, neoconservatives, Christian conservatives, American Zionists, etc. – have successfully engineered the US into a war in which we never should have been involved. Until very recently, most of the country’s politicians have supported this war because of the carefully constructed lies fed to the media, the public, and the world regarding the remote possibility that Iraq posed a threat to the US or might further destabilize an already twitching and bloody Middle East. The lies are now coming unraveled. The political opposition finally is realizing the extent to which the Bush Crime Family – controlled and manipulated by its two senior members, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld – manipulated intelligence and information and manufactured a web of deceit that has now taken the lives of tens of thousands of Iraqis and over two thousand US soldiers and Marines. Not surprisingly, when Dick Cheney was called upon to serve in his generation’s war, he refused. He dodged and hid and gamed the system of deferments, including using his wife’s fortuitous pregnancy, until he was out of range of his draft board. As Cheney so proudly boasted years later, “I had other priorities in the 60s.” As is so often the case with Republican Chicken-hawks, the most vocal advocates of war are those who hid from service themselves, and now insist there is an obligation for the husbands, sons, and fathers – and now wives, mothers and daughters - to participate in the killing and risk being killed themselves in a war started because of greed, lies, fraud and cowardice. Pennsylvania Democratic Representative John Murtha who, unlike Cheney and most of the Republican leadership, served in the military and is a decorated Marine combat veteran of the Vietnam war, has today called for an immediate withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. "It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf region," Mr. Murtha said during an emotional news conference on Capitol Hill. His remarks were quickly denounced by House Republicans - the chicken-hawks, the cowards, the liars -- as defeatist and wrongheaded. Murtha added, "Our troops have become the primary target for the insurgency (and the insurgents) are united against US forces . . . we have become a catalyst for violence." He went on to say that, before the Iraqi elections in December, the country's people and its emerging government "must be put on notice that the United States will immediately redeploy. All of Iraq must know that Iraq is free," he said. "Free from United States occupation." Join me tonight for the discussion of Mr. Murtha's critically important comments.-MM
now isnt that a bit lopsided? I have heard both the full interview on meet the press with Murtha (who I have spoken to on a number of occassions in his district) and the full AEI speech by the VP... Both of these guys apolgized to each other but yet neither side of the far right or far left media covered that. Way wrong guy to pick on in Murtha. He is the definition of HAWK.
[Edited on 22/11/2005 by dst]
Name: John Patrick Murtha
Job: Congressman for Pennsylvania's 12th Congressional District
Age: 73, born in New Martinsville, West Virginia
Education: Left college to join the Marines, but later received a B.A. in Economics at the University of Pittsburgh.
Life and Career Highlights:
* Left college in 1952 to join the Marines, where he served during the Korean War and eventually rose in rank to captain
* After his discharge from active duty, Murtha reenlisted and volunteered to serve in Vietnam in 1966-67, where he won two purple hearts, a Bronze Star with Combat "V" and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry.
* After a five-year stint in Pennsylvania's House, in 1974 Murtha was elected to the U.S Congress, the first Vietnam combat veteran to win a seat in Congress.
*As a member of the House Appropriations Committee, Murtha quickly built a track record of support for the military, voting consistently for money for both active duty soldiers and veterans.
*Breaking ranks with many Democrats, Murtha backed President Reagan's incursions in Central America in the 1980s.
*Among the most fervent backers of the 1991 Gulf War with Iraq, Murtha worked closely with President George H.W. Bush to gain support for the war in Congress.
*In September, 2002, Murtha voiced grave doubts about President George W. Bush's plans for war, complaining that he has not built a proper coalition and estimating the war will cost taxpayers at least $50 billion. He nonetheless voted later to authorize the war With Iraq.
*In May 2004, Murtha joined fellow Democrats in criticizing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld for his role in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. But he stopped short of calling for Rumsfeld to resign, as other Democrats do.
*In the fall of 2005, he led a House effort to pass the so-called McCain Amendment, a measure that would expressly prohibit "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment of terror suspects
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5018733
Office of the Vice President
November 21, 2005
Vice President's Remarks on the War on Terror
American Enterprise Institute
Washington, D.C.
11:01 A.M. EST
"My remarks today concern national security, in particular the war on terror and the Iraq front in that war. Several days ago, I commented briefly on some recent statements that have been made by some members of Congress about Iraq. Within hours of my speech, a report went out on the wires under the headline, "Cheney says war critics 'dishonest,' 'reprehensible.'"
One thing I've learned in the last five years is that when you're Vice President, you're lucky if your speeches get any attention at all. But I do have a quarrel with that headline, and it's important to make this point at the outset. I do not believe it is wrong to criticize the war on terror or any aspect thereof. Disagreement, argument, and debate are the essence of democracy, and none of us should want it any other way. For my part, I've spent a career in public service, run for office eight times -- six statewide offices and twice nationally. I served in the House of Representatives for better than a decade, most of that time as a member of the leadership of the minority party. To me, energetic debate on issues facing our country is more than just a sign of a healthy political system -- it's also something I enjoy. It's one of the reasons I've stayed in this business. And I believe the feeling is probably the same for most of us in public life.
For those of us who don't mind debating, there's plenty to keep us busy these days, and it's not likely to change any time soon. On the question of national security, feelings run especially strong, and there are deeply held differences of opinion on how best to protect the United States and our friends against the dangers of our time. Recently my friend and former colleague Jack Murtha called for a complete withdrawal of American forces now serving in Iraq, with a drawdown to begin at once. I disagree with Jack and believe his proposal would not serve the best interests of this nation. But he's a good man, a Marine, a patriot -- and he's taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion.
Nor is there any problem with debating whether the United States and our allies should have liberated Iraq in the first place. Here, as well, the differing views are very passionately and forcefully stated. But nobody is saying we should not be having this discussion, or that you cannot reexamine a decision made by the President and the Congress some years ago. To the contrary, I believe it is critical that we continue to remind ourselves why this nation took action, and why Iraq is the central front in the war on terror, and why we have a duty to persevere."....
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/11/20051121-2.html
ANd now for some Murtha Comments:
White House spars with critics
Vice President Dick Cheney jumped into the fray Wednesday by assailing Democrats who contend the Bush administration manipulated intelligence on Iraq, calling their criticism “one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city.”
Murtha, a Marine intelligence officer in Vietnam, angrily shot back at Cheney: “I like guys who’ve never been there that criticize us who’ve been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don’t like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done.”
Cheney calls war critics ‘opportunists’
The top Democrat on the House Appropriations defense subcommittee, Murtha has earned bipartisan respect for his grasp of military issues over three decades in Congress. He planned to introduce a resolution Thursday that, if passed by both the House and the Senate, would force the president to withdraw U.S. troops....
...First elected to Congress in 1974, Murtha is known as an ally of uniformed officers in the Pentagon and on the battlefield. The perception on Capitol Hill is that when the congressman makes a statement on military issues, he’s talking for those in uniform.
Known to shun publicity, Murtha said he was standing up because he had a constitutional and moral obligation to speak for the troops.
His voice cracked and tears filled his eyes as he related several stories of visiting wounded troops, including one who was blinded and lost both his hands but had been denied a Purple Heart because friendly fire caused his injuries.
“I met with the commandant. I said, ‘If you don’t give him a Purple Heart, I’ll give him one of mine.’ And they gave him a Purple Heart,” said Murtha, who has two.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10084428/
I cannot find the transcript but Murtha stated everything that the VP restated on Monday at AEI. Murtha said this is nto about partisan politics and that he is friends with Cheney. When asked about the attack by the freshman congresswoman from Ohio. Murtha said that he bore no ill will and that there where certain conservatives in the Republican camp that viewed everything as a republicna vs. a democrat issue. He felt that she was just new and corruptable and that he understood how she might have wanted to say this for the media. He was not there to address it nor was he offended. Murtha is one of those few men you meat whom you cannot help but admire as he is standard that we try to admire in elected officials. When Rebublicans tried to gerrymander his district a number of years of Republicans IN HIS DISTRICT changed thier party affiliation to a DEM jsut so Murtha would stay as their congressman.
Quig, Way wrong fight on this one.
I have met Jack. I have his chief aids phone and email on my phone. He should be taken very seriously.
from the NY Times:
By HASSAN M. FATTAH
Published: November 22, 2005
CAIRO, Nov. 21 - For the first time, Iraq's political factions on Monday collectively called for a timetable for withdrawal of foreign forces, in a moment of consensus that comes as the Bush administration battles pressure at home to commit itself to a pullout schedule.
The announcement, made at the conclusion of a reconciliation conference here backed by the Arab League, was a public reaching out by Shiites, who now dominate Iraq's government, to Sunni Arabs on the eve of parliamentary elections that have been put on shaky ground by weeks of sectarian violence.
About 100 Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish leaders, many of whom will run in the election on Dec. 15, signed a closing memorandum on Monday that "demands a withdrawal of foreign troops on a specified timetable, dependent on an immediate national program for rebuilding the security forces," the statement said....."
TOTAL WAR.
Sepp Dietrich and Jochim Piper style.
As I recall Sepp also visited the Spa and Malmedy area...although he didn't take kindly to US servicemen.
I think it was called the Malmedy Massacre...and then there was that trial in Nuremburg:spank:
[Edited on 23/11/2005 by bernie]
Yes he was a soldier and a warrior. No doubt. He has a wealth of knowledge and experience to draw from.
But he also is a partisan politician.
He seems to be having trouble figuring out which hat to wear. A soldier learns early that one praises in public and scolds in private - for the most part anyways. Especially on BIG issues.
A politician, by nature, can't keep his/her mouth shut and one of ther most dangerous places in the world to be is between a politician and a microphone.
Whether he intended it or not Murtha gave ammo to our enemies by coming oput with this walkin away plan. He may not have used those EXACT words but what was on front pages around the world?
Immediate Withdrawl.
Talk about a propoganda boost to the enemy.
Does he make good points? Yes of course he did and still does. But to grandstand like he did was just a dumb thing to do - and that is why I called him Pelosi's bitch.
Had our politicians acted this way during WWII the outcome would have been very different.
Instead of lauding this guy whay don't you take a look at the other true warrior - the one who gave the last words prior to that vote fridfay night.
I can't recall his name.
His military record is different but just as valid as Murtha's. Why don't we talk about what he said and believes.
Oh, because it backs the president and our troops.
There should be open dialogue. Rather interesting developments in Iraq that are nto getting coverage. The recent agreement made between the Shia, Sunni and Kurd elements, and the request we remove our troops by the end of 2006, and the trip to Iran and the agreements by the Iranians to stay of of Iraqi affairs and stop inciting... probably helped that the guy who did the negotiating was the former head of security for Saddam...all without US knowledge/
I disagree.
Murtha knows too much. I have my suspicians that this is more coordinated than you might think. I recently reviewed an email I got back on 26 Sept from a former instructor at West Point and officer in the Air Force....long before current developments...he advised me then that he expected a full withdrawal prior to 2006 elections... go figure.
Rookie lawmaker's 'coward' remarks ricochet
By Malia Rulon
Enquirer Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON - Three days after Rep. Jean Schmidt was booed off the House floor for
saying that "cowards cut and run, Marines never do," the Ohioan she quoted
disputed the comments.
Danny Bubp, a freshman state representative who is a colonel in the Marine Corps
Reserve, told The Enquirer that he never mentioned Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., by name
when talking with Schmidt, and he would never call a fellow Marine a coward.
"The unfortunate thing about all of that is that her choice of words on the
floor of the House - I don't know, she's a freshman, she had one minute.
"Unfortunately, they came out wrong," said Bubp, R-West Union.
Lawmakers were in the midst of a passionate debate Friday over whether to withdraw
U.S. troops from Iraq, an issue pushed to a vote by Republicans after public comments
from Murtha.
Schmidt - decked out in a red-white-and-blue suit that resembled the U.S. flag -
went to the floor and quoted from a telephone conversation with Bubp: "He asked
me to send Congress a message: Stay the course.
"He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message: That cowards cut and
run, Marines never do."
The comment drew a chorus of boos and shouting from Democrats.
It's unclear whether Schmidt, who will start her 79th day in the House today, knew
at the time of her remarks that Murtha had served 37 years in the Marine Corps and
Marine Corps Reserve.
She immediately took back her remarks. It's against House rules to refer to a fellow
lawmaker by name or to criticize them.
Schmidt, a Republican from Clermont County's Miami Township, then wrote to Murtha
to explain that she has a lot to learn and did not mean to disparage his service.
Bubp, who has served in the Marine Corps Reserve for 27 years, including three years
of active duty, said he called Schmidt on Friday afternoon to discuss the resolution
that called for the immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq - not to talk about
Murtha.
The House nonbinding resolution failed by a 403-3 vote.
"There was no discussion of him personally being a coward or about any person
being a coward," Bubp said. "My message to the folks in Washington, D.C.,
and to all the Congress people up there, is to stay the course. We cannot leave
Iraq or cut and run - any terminology that you want to use."
Still, Bubp said the whole thing has been blown out of proportion.
The enemy that the US and allies have in their sights are dedicated, passionate extremists who don't need encouragement. It is quite doubtful that they actually know what is truly being debated in Washington and elsewhere. They would be aware of what their leaders tell them, which will be lies and distortions in any case.
Now the people who should be considered in this argument are the very large population of supporters, sympathisers, undecided or open-minded observers.
Mostly, they know that the US went in to this brashly, ignoring advice and pursuing hopelessly incompetent strategies, if there was a real strategy for peace in the first place. Most of these have been waiting a long time for a correction from the US leadership. They have been waiting a long time to see democracy and free speech at work in the congress and media. They see balanced argument coming from commentators around the world including those with decades of experience and knowledge in the ME region.
In the US the see debate stifled by this false argument that questioning will empower the enemy.
I ask.....what then does that say about democracy, or the US Constitution or the principles of checks and balances?
Now if all that can be suspended on the basis the the US is at war so different rules apply, .....then there needs to be a lot more debate and consideration before that decision is made, before it was made.
Was America asked if it was prepared to suspend it's Constitution, citizen's rights to free speech without being declared unpatriotic, servicemen's right's to the leave and protection, etc. in order to relieve Saddam of his rule?
I DON'T THINK SO!
Spin
CNN OPERATOR FIRED AFTER SUGGESTING 'X' OVER CHENEY WAS 'FREE SPEECH'
A CNN switchboard operator was fired over the holiday -- after the operator claimed the 'X' placed over Vice President's Dick Cheney's face was "free speech!"
"We did it just to make a point. Tell them to stop lying, Bush and Cheney," the CNN operator said to a caller. "Bring our soldiers home."
The caller initially phoned the network to complain about the all-news channel flashing an "X' over Cheney as he gave an address live from Washington.
"Was it not freedom of speech? Yes or No?" the CNN operator explained.
"If you don't like it, don't watch."
Laurie Goldberg, Senior Vice President for Public Relations with CNN, said in a release:
"A Turner switchboard operator was fired today after we were alerted to a conversation the operator had with a caller in which the operator lost his temper and expressed his personal views -- behavior that was totally inappropriate. His comments did not reflect the views of CNN. We are reaching out to the caller and expressing our deep regret to her and apologizing that she did not get the courtesy entitled to her. "