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Do not Post "Toro" subjects?
Do you think we should all take a stand and not post any subjects to do with the second other italian team? TSOIT.
I don't want to do it to our boys who are still working for them, but there has to be someway we can protest them taking our name away?
Comments
I am ignoring the Team That Was An Italian Team!
Forza Ferrari!
Giving TSR another name like we did/do with TOIT is childish yes. But there is nothing wrong in my opninion to be a bit childish now and then, as long as we know that we are being childish.
the lakes of minnesota and the hills of tennessee are still the same, you've got mount rushmore and the alamo but the statue of liberty has been replaced by an oversized mountie and the Holywood sign now reads bois de houx. would it still be the same country?
I, in all fairness tend to think that we shouldn't bend over that easily. full respect to the guys who still work there but as it seems now, there will be very little "Minardi" left in Faenza
At this time, Mr. Minardi has been quoted that he sees the plusses overwhelming the negatives......and that is good enough for me............ granted, this can all change very quickly........ but until it does, I will follow and support the team from Faenza.........
As for my opinion concerning the Minardi-STR querelle, yes, I agree that it is no more the same team, but something totally different.
And an era is ended in F1 (due to the disappearing at the same time of the names Minardi, Jordan and Sauber, plus BAR will not last long), and it makes me cry, because it's like the F1 of my boyhood that ends.
But then again, would Minardi have been the same thing if the kept the name. The answer is, again, no. If you think about the last 10 years of F1, everyone buying out a team changed the name, except fot Walkinshaw (too much of a gentleman) and Stoddie (because he did not want to give up the FIA money that would have been lost had the name being changed.
History is history, and as it could not be stopped by Alexander the great, Julius Caesar and Napoleon, it could not be stopped by Scuderia Minardi Faenza.
It is painful, but that's the way it is.
So, I deem I'll always remember Minardi as the incarnation of true sporting spirit, and I'll always have a soft spot for it as a symbol of MY F1, but I'll have no rancour against Toro Rosso.
Remember that, now that Ferrari is FIAT, McLaren is Mercedes, BAR and (whether now or in 2007) Aguri are Honda, and Toyota, BMW, Renault spend their name directly, Red-Bull-Toro Rosso is just holding our beloved flag of the privateers, even though today a privateer can no more do it with a few dollars, but needs as well a substantious backing.
Williams made a very brave choice in refusing BMW offer. Still, are you sure there will be a team named Williams in 2010? I wouldn't bet on it.
So, my suggestion is to be just neutral with regard to Toro Rosso, always remembering that until their factory is in Faenza and many of the boys speak the Romagna dialect, Minardi's heart will still beat in it.
PS Neil, if you have nothing new to say it is time you went. Why can't you support the great people at Faenza?
Guys, according to media reports, what will be rolling out of Faenza will be an old red bull racing chassis, not very Minardi, is it. they don't even consider developing the car that the boys have spent so much time on this year and which surely (especially the rear bit) has some potential. i can't believe that the fighting spirit in here is so low! the only one willing to make some noise seems to be comrade neil.
On the subject I had a visit to Faenza Friday last. Believe me when I say the overwhelming majority of the guys there are happy whit the takeover. The oportunity of Job security is something theyare looking forward to (even if it is secure for 3 years) They look forward to the challange to prove themselves with a larger budget and better equiptment. Only drawback is the use of the '05 RB chassis next year. The guys are hoping for our continued support.
They can't change the mechanics and rest of the staff overnight...but I fear they will over time.. I still fear everything changes in 2008 once the rules are revised...and Minardi - or better what's left of it in 2008 :-( - transplanted to England to Red Bull 1.
I considered giving up on F1 as a consequence in 2006...now at least there's Super Aguri. Mr. Aguri stated Super Aguri won't be a Honda B team...if action follow words, I consider supporting Super Aguri in 2006 - at least one new privateer team.
Damn, at least Football fans can start their own club once everything goes down the toilet we can't....after the purchase of Man United, started by disgruntled supporters in 2005. Good story here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_United_of_Manchester
They apparently have an average crowd of over 2500 people per game !
Oh wait, my Saudi relative just found a new oil field and is willing to spend $ 100 million a year on a new Italian F1 team :) .... * wakes up *..wait ...I have no Saudi relative.
[Edited on 2/11/2005 by bladerunner]
to come back to the original topic: of course you may post about SQTR here, free country, innit?
Whilst the site may take on some sort of 'tribute' status as far as Minardi is concerned, it must become much more eclectic if it is to survive long term. I don't know if anyone watched the sad way that 'All About Arrows' petered out, but it wasn't pretty.
STR (as they will inevitably be known) will and must be talked about. What is exciting is that other flags will come out of the closet (some already declared - you are sad, hack), and the discussions to become more wide-ranging in terms of what is happenning in the world of Formula One.
I personally plan to be a complete shit-stirrer, reminding everyone of Stoddart's crusade every time things turn to custard.
Talk about STR? WGAF.
For the boys at the factory, nothing has changed other than the sign on the door. If anything, the finally have the job security they have always longed for, and the chance to prove their worth and maybe, just maybe move up in the ranks to Ferrari..? (i'm sure alot of them dream of doing so)
I still maintain, should be stop supporting them like alot of us seem to be doing, then we're showing our true colours. We were never supporting Minardi the people, we were merely supporting the name, and this 'image' of being an underdog.
I have news for some of you - Toro Rosso are still the underdogs! They're a b-spec team owned by a fizzy drink label, not a manufacturer! The car might look different, and the name might have changed, but the team is still in Faenza, the workers are still there, and they still possess the same spirit and will to win that they did when the car was black and the name started with M.
Forza Minardi, Forza Toro Rosso!
And I thought it isn't allowed to run another team's old car?? (RBR01)
I am not.
Of course, I am in touch with the fact that when RB purchased the team, it also bought the rights to name it. Whether we like it or not, they do have the right to decide what to call the team.
Also, I sincerely am glad if this piece of news means that the mechanics at Minardi have job security at least until 2008. They deserve it. I am also happy if they have the spirit to carry on working for their new employer with the same attitude they have had in the past.
So what is the problem?
Quite simply, being a fan is, in my view, about passion. Your reason may cause you to like something, but if your heart is not in it, you cannot be a true fan. While it's important that the financial state of the team improved with the Red Bull deal and the workers kept their jobs, these facts only appeal to reason.
Everything that was related to passion; the independent underdog, always surviving somehow, the legacy of the Minardi name, personalities such as Mr. Minardi and Paul Stoddart... These are all gone, replaced by a flawless, calculated marketing of a drink company. The company that promised "rock 'n roll attitude" and gave us David Coulthard with a stubble.
I'm sorry. I like the car I drive, I like the newspapers I read and I like the sodas I drink. However, I cannot feel any passion about them. In a similar way, the passion that was Minardi has now been reduced to a commodity that is a bad-tasting drink in a can. Show me a person who can get excited about the success of a drink company and I'll show you a lunatic.
Is that the only choice or can we have both!
With any takeover, there will be loyal supporters,employees, stakeholders, etc who are initially upset.
It is quite usual, as in the case of the new owners, to give a period for people to adjust and decide if they want to stay or not.
FM fans are in that situation.
I say, keep our minds open and see if the change produces benfits for most.
Minardi had been suffering underfunding for many years, which at times stretched the team beyond reasonable limits.
There was insecurity, and the consequences of perennial short term measures. You can't blame the team for being happy to have a more secure future from the takeover.
If the new arrangement is bad, then no-one should be surprised if we quit en-masse.
In the meantime, we're free to debate, criticise, hope, recommend, and be heard. I wouldn't expect many answers from Toro Rosso till they see whether the supporters are with them or against them.
It is "wait and see", isn't it?
I wonder if Paul secured a significant "goodwill" payment for including us in the Minardi package. What do you think we're worth? :)
Spin
I am glad this has stimilated some discussion. Many of these things need to be vented and talked about. I'm in total agreement with Murph.
well, first off it is more likely that the Newfie's in Canada will figure out a way to jackhammer out the province of Quebec adn float it out into tht Atalantic than the possibility of Canada invading the US. If quebec didn't owe all the other provinces so much damn money they might nt get away with all the crap they already do...
but, that was not your point. if, given your scenerio the french canucks invaded the US and took over and renamed the place would I still be a loyal american? well, yea, I suppose I would. I would have my same neighbors and same everything else with the exception that there was new set of stupid rules to live by: liberal instead of neo-con's. we would be ruled by a country that recently approved legislation to permit more strippers entry visa's because there was a dramiti need to fill the job vacanicies in Canada... in some way you gotta admire that kind of thinking...
I think the new ownership will bring thier own fresh new ideas some of which will be good and some bad based upon each of our own subjective opinions. let's figure out how we move forward, pick up the pieces and support the team memeber we always have.
I do not know what you know about Quebec, but as an Anglophone who was born ,raised and living in Quebec, this place is damn good, and damn good all by its self.
Sorry, but I cannot let this pass.
Phil
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But (I know PS is outspoken, but still...) I don't get this quote from Nov, 1 from PS when he was asked about the Minardi sale:
"It's a very sad day and I really wish there was another solution."
Other reports even quote this as " I wish there was a better solution"...
What is he talking about ? Keeping Minardi if he had more time / money ? Selling to someone who kept the name ?
Also, I guess we will have to ask the mechanics and the rest of the team members in about 6/12 months if things are still ok for them...it's hard to tell before in my view.