Existing Users: Because of an update to the forum software you will need to reset your password. Please use the "Forgot?" link on the sign in form to do so. If that doesn't work, send me an email at feedback@forzaminardi.com and I'll sort you out!
Indeed, by popular demand i have agreed to launch a Spanish version of this forum. i was told that there are lots of spanish (speaking; anglophone, francophone, is there such a thing a hispanophone?) people visiting this site who don't speak english but have a great deal to contribute... well... there you go
other updates: thanks to salvo there is a cv of Paolo Barilla in the Minardiclopaedia, there will also be a shinji nakano one soon, have to do a little more research on him though
i finally found the code that generates the automated email when you use the contact form. the text of that email was German which always triggered an outcry from the recipient "i have to tell you that I don't speak Danish" which was extremely annoying for me. Now i've found it and changed it to english, thanks god.
Well, can any of the US members here tell me what language the President is speaking?
I just cannot understand him!
Consider this exchange at Friday's Tampa event, where a woman (whose question was somehow not transcribed by the White House) asked how the private accounts would fix "the red problem." She was referring to Bush's snazzy charts illustrating what he said was Social Security's "red ink."
Here's Bush's response, in its entirety:
"Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to what has been promised.
Funny? or just plain appalling that someone who is trying to change the world can't express ideas lucidly!
This aussie doesn't always agree with the French, but if Bush won't hear criticism at home, the Aussies, the French, the Germans, the English, and others will have to say it straight.
Yep Bush is a complete embarassment to the English language. Here in Texas I have not heard anyone butcher the English language as bad as him. I don't know of any Bush speak classes but I sure hope there arn't any.
Since he will not understand or listen to criticism we can only wait till his 4 years are up and hope that Jeb Bush doesn't make a run.
Doc - could not agree with you more. Bush's inability to convey his ideas in something that resembles English ESPECIALLY on the issue of so called Social Security is infuriating. The other day he said that working three jobs is "uniquely American"
All in all he is better than his previous rivals but that says little if anything.
I think you and I disagree about Clinton's abilitiies. Bill was/is an eloqent speaker, who also had a brain.
Of course he saw differences and nuances that most us didn't, like when sex isn't sex, but in my view that is almost inconsequential when compared with Bush's blunders.
Condi? Wait and see, I would say.
If someone of Powells stature couldn't stand up to Bush, will a nervous young apprentice?
Still, .... Bush and Condi's unbelievable luck continues! What will happen when the shit finally hits the fan in the Whitehouse bubble?
I'd say there are a lot of stories yet to be told! The reality check must be coming!
..by the way "Gong Xi Fa Cai" everyone, or at least to the 2 billion who uinderstand CNY.
Spin - have to agree with you about the Hillbilly Whorehopper - that boy could sell poop to pigs! Ice to eskimos.
He could talk the pants off - well maybe I should say the thong off just about anybody.
He was and still is great with words but policy? Thats another story for another time.
However, I don't know if you saw him at the Stupid Bowl - I mean the Super Bowl but he does not look too well. I know he had the heart surgery and all but he still does not look like he is 100%.
Clown - I am not on anything. I had to support him in order to keep that lunatic kerry as far from the White house as possible.
Yoko - you will be re programmed and your Bushenglish lesssons will begin soon.
Watched a little of that Fareignheit 911 this morning incidently. Now I think the bloke is a complete asshole and some of the facts that Moore brings up are very disturbing and true (or else he would have been sued by now), however I have to agree with RJ on this one....I genuinely think this film is nothing short of total character assassination. Moore is really dumb. He has come up with some very valid points but he loses those valid points by editing the piece with such bias it's almost venomous.... Moore was his own worst enemy making this film. Had he kept his valid points and tried to offer viewpoints from both sides he would, in my opinion, have cost GW Bush a lot more than a headache.
Watched a little of that Fareignheit 911 this morning incidently.
ahem...
Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 911 by David Kopel Independence Institute If all you know is what the mainstream media tell you, then you are living in a world of illusions. But you can’t free your mind if you merely replace one set of manipulative illusions with another set of manipulative illusions. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a twisted, dishonest, paranoid, and hateful fantasy. Learn the facts, and make up your own mind. The list below is a summary of a much longer report, which is available for free at www.davekopel.org. The report also discusses many other issues about the movie. There are lots of good reasons why people have chosen to vote against (or for) the re-election of George Bush. And there are lots of good reasons why patriotic Americans have decided to oppose (or support) the war in Iraq. One thing that all the good reasons have in common is that they are based on facts. In a democracy, we should try to convince our fellow citizens with facts and logical reasoning. To manipulate people with frauds and propaganda is to attack democracy itself. 1. The Gore “victory” rally isn’t celebrating a Florida win. It was held before the polls had even opened. 2. Like all the other networks, Fox mistakenly said that Gore had won in Florida. The first network to retract the Florida mistake was CBS, not Fox. 3. A 6-month study by a consortium of major newspapers shows that Bush would have won the Florida recount under any of the terms which Gore sought in his lawsuits. 4. Investigation by the Palm Beach Post and others shows that race was not a reason why election officials mistakenly disqualified some voters because they were incorrectly thought to have felony convictions. 5. Bush’s Presidency before 9/11 was not in serious trouble. No commentator said that he looked like a lame-duck president. Congress had passed his #1 bill (the tax cut) and was on the way to passing his #2 bill (the education bill). The scene at the end of the movie in which Bush tells a rich audience “I call you my base,” was from an October 2000 charity fund-raiser. Both Gore and Bush spoke at the fund-raiser and, as is the custom at the fund-raiser, made fun of themselves. 6. “In his first eight months in office before September 11th, George W. Bush was on vacation, according to the Washington Post, forty-two percent of the time.” As the Washington Post reported, the figure includes weekends, and includes time in “vacation locations” such as Camp David, where Bush was working—as when he met with Tony Blair. 7. In the golf course scene (about the middle of the movie), Bush had just heard about a terrorist attack on Israel. He called the press together to make a quick statement condemning the terrorism against Israel. He was not speaking about attacks on the United States. 8. There is no evidence that Bush did not read the Aug. 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing about al Qaeda. 9. He never claimed that the title’s “vagueness” was an excuse for not reading it. 10. The Briefing did not say “said that Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes.” It said that the FBI has “not been able to corroborate” such a threat. 11. The Saudis left the U.S. only after air travel was opened for the general public. 12. According to Richard Clarke and the September 11 Commission, Clarke personally approved the Saudi departures, and the decision went no higher in the chain of command. 13. Moore lied to a TV reporter in claiming that Fahrenheit discloses Clarke’s decision to the audience. Clarke called the Saudi exit material in Fahrenheit a “mistake” by Moore. 14. Contrary to what Fahrenheit claims, the September 11 Commission found that many Saudis were asked “detailed questions” before being allowed to leave. 15. James Bath did not invest bin Laden family money in Bush’s energy company Arbusto. He invested his own money. 13952 Denver West Parkway • Suite 400 • Golden, Colorado 80401-3119 www.IndependenceInstitute.org • 303-279-6536 • 303-279-4176 fax
16. Bath’s name was blacked-out from an Alabama National Guard record released by the White House—as required by federal law, which prohibits the disclosure of health-related personal information. 17. Prince Bandar has way too much influence on the U.S. government, as Fahrenheit shows, but American coddling of the Saudi tyranny is a long-standing bi-partisan tradition, not a Bush invention. 18. Harken Energy: Bush only sold the stock after company lawyers told him it was OK. 19. The reason that Bush “beat the rap” was because there was no evidence he had engaged in insider trading. 20. The Carlyle Group is not a Bush playground. Many Bush opponents are investors, including George Soros. 21. The Bush administration dealt Carlyle a huge financial blow by canceling the Crusader, one of the few weapons cancellations in the Bush administration. 22. The bin Ladens dropped out of Carlyle before the stock sale. Of the 1.4 billion that the Saudis invested in companies with Bush connections, the vast majority of the money was invested in Carlyle before George H.W. Bush joined the firm. 23. Craig Unger claims that the Saudis have $860 billion invested in the U.S. The figure appears in his book House of Bush, House of Saud, but neither of Unger’s cited sources support such a large figure. 24. Moore claims that the Saudis “own 7% of America.” But even if you believe Unger’s fictitious $860 billion figure, the Saudis own only about 7% of total foreign investment in America, which is over 10 trillion dollars. Only if all of America were owned by foreigners could Moore’s claim be correct. 25. The Saudi embassy does not receive special protection. It is not the only foreign embassy which is guarded by the U.S. Secret Service. An international treaty signed by the U.S. requires the U.S. to protect any embassy which asks for protection. 26. Moore’s insinuation that Bush runs U.S. foreign policy according to Saudi instructions is contradicted by the Afghanistan invasion (which toppled the Taliban regime which the Saudis strongly supported), and by the Iraq War (which the Saudis opposed, in part because Iraqi oil will compete with Saudi oil). 27. As Governor of Texas, Bush never met with Taliban representatives. 28. The proposed Unocal pipeline was supported by the Clinton administration, but Unocal abandoned the pipeline idea in 1998. 29. The new Afghani government has signed a protocol to build a pipeline, but it is an entirely different pipeline, in a location hundreds of miles distant from the Unocal proposal. 30. Construction has not begun on the new pipeline. Although Moore claims that “Enron stood to benefit” from the pipeline, Enron has never had any participation in either pipeline. 31. The Bush administration did not “welcome” Taliban diplomats in March 2001, but instead condemned them for failing to hand over Osama bin Laden. 32. Despite Moore’s pose in the movie, he opposed the Afghanistan War, and—in December 2002—claimed that Osama bin Laden might be innocent. 33. In claiming that the Afghanistan invasion was a mere ruse to protect the Saudis, Moore omits the results of liberation in Afghanistan: destruction of al Qaeda training camps, the creation of free elections, more freedom for women, and the homecoming of 1.5 million refugees from the Taliban. 34. The various quotes about Bush administration cooperation with the September 11 Commission have been re- sequenced to create a false impression. In July 2003, Chairman Kean complained about lack of cooperation. In February 2004, Bush said that the White House had given extraordinary cooperation. Kean agreed, and praised the White House for providing “unprecedented” access. 35. John Ashcroft didn’t really lose a Senate election to a “dead guy.” Mel Carnahan died in a plane crash a few weeks before the election, and the Missouri Governor had promised to appoint Carnahan’s widow Jean Carnahan if voters pulled the lever for Mel Carnahan. 36. The FBI did not “know” about al Qaeda suspects who were attending flight training schools. The information was never passed above the level of one field office. 37. Ashcroft did not cut overall counter-terrorism funding. He only proposed a one-year cut in a particular program that already had two years of unspent money. Page 2
38. Rep. Porter Goss says he has an “800 number,” and the Fahrenheit caption says “He’s lying.” Goss does have a toll- free number, although the prefix is 877. 39. Moore say Saddam’s Iraq “had never murdered a single American citizen.” In fact, Saddam paid for terrorist bombers in Israel who murdered Americans, along with people of other nationalities. Saddam also sheltered the American-kill- ing terrorist Abu Nidal, and the bomb-maker for the 1993 World Trade Center bombings. 40. In addition, Saddam ordered assassination attempts against former President Bush and against U.S. diplomats in the Philippines. 41. Moore claims that the Saddam regime “never threatened to attack the United States.” In fact, in 1997 the regime publicly ordered: “American and British interests, embassies, and naval ships in the Arab region should be the targets of military operations and commando attacks by Arab political forces.” On the first anniversary of September 11, Saddam's regime called for suicide attacks on Americans. 42. Moore claims that there was no connection between Iraq and al Qaeda. In fact, there is an extensive record of collaboration although—as the September 11 Commission announced—there is no proof that Saddam participated beforehand in al Qaeda attacks on America. 43. Fahrenheit shows Condoleezza Rice saying, “Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11.” The audience laughs derisively. Here is what Rice really said on Nov. 28, 2003: "Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11. It’s not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York. This is a great terrorist, international terrorist network that is determined to defeat freedom. It has perverted Islam from a peaceful religion into one in which they call on it for violence. And they’re all linked. And Iraq is a central front because, if and when, and we will, we change the nature of Iraq to a place that is peaceful and democratic and prosperous in the heart of the Middle East, you will begin to change the Middle East...." 44. Moore portrays pre-liberation Iraq as a happy nation of kite-flying and weddings. In fact, a sixth of the population had fled Saddam’s tyranny. The United Nations and Amnesty International condemned “the systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and of international humanitarian law by the Government of Iraq, resulting in an all-pervasive repression and oppression sustained by broad-based discrimination and widespread terror.’’ 45. The only Iraqi casualties which Moore shows are civilians, although military casualties far outnumbered civilian. 46. When showing pictures of buildings being blown up, Moore does not reveal that many of them were military buildings, and civilians were never allowed anywhere near them. 47. A humorous sequence making fun of tiny countries in the Iraq liberation Coalition does not even mention the major countries in the Coalition, such as the U.K., Australia, Italy, and Japan. Not a deceit, but mean-spirited and exploitive: The footage of the funeral of U.S. Air Force Maj. Gregory Stone at Arlington National Cemetery appears without his family's permission, and over their vehement objection. Major Stone strongly believed in the Iraq mission, as does his family. The footage of Massachusetts National Guardsman Peter Damon, who is undergoing therapy at Walter Reed Army Medical Center is also used without his permission. 48. Despite Moore’s claims, American media have not been mindlessly supportive of the Iraq war. For example, Peter Jennings has been extremely critical. The evidence that Moore offers to portray Jennings as a war supporter is a clip of Jennings reporting in April 2003 that Saddam’s army had collapsed—which was true. 49. The scene of American soldiers making fun of a man underneath a sheet is not torture of a prisoner of war. They are making fun of a drunk who passed out in the street. 50. Moore reports that Bush proposed closing some Veteran’s hospitals. But he also proposed opening other veteran’s hospitals. 51. Bush once opposed renewing a special bonus of $75/ month for soldiers in “imminent danger zones.” Moore claims that Bush proposed cutting combat soldiers’ pay by 1/3; but a soldier's pay and benefits is over $27,000 per year, even at low enlisted grades. 52. While making false claims about a Bush pay cut, Moore omits the fact that Bush sought and won a 3.7% military pay raise in 2003. Page 3
53. Moore claims that only one Congressman has a child in Iraq. Actually, two do. (Democratic Senator Tim Johnson of S.D., and Republican Rep. Duncan Hunter of California.) Also, John Ashcroft has a son on a naval ship in the Persian Gulf. 54. Fahrenheit deceptively cut the footage of Rep. Mark Kennedy to make it look like Kennedy rebuffed Moore’s request to help enlist Congressional children. In fact, Kennedy said it was a good idea, and offered to help. 55. Fahrenheit shows Rep. Michael Castle walking past Moore. But Rep. Castle is childless. 56. Based on Census Bureau data, Congressional families are more likely than other families to have children serving in Iraq. 57. Moore calls Flint, Michigan, “my hometown.” In fact, he grew up in Davison, a much wealthier and much whiter suburb. 58. In Fahrenheit, Moore pretends to support our troops. But in fact, he supports the enemy in Iraq-the coalition of Saddam loyalists, al Qaeda operatives, and terrorists controlled by Iran or Syria-who are united in their desire to murder Iraqis, and to destroy any possibility of democracy in Iraq. Here is what Moore said on April 14, 2004, about the forces who are killing Americans and trying to impose totalitarian rule on Iraq: “The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not ‘insurgents’ or ‘terrorists’ or ‘The Enemy.’ They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow—and they will win.” Do you really think that someone who wants Iraq to be ruled by Islamist or Ba’athist tyranny, and who deliberately kills innocent civilians with car bombs, is like the American Minutemen? 59. As reported in the trade journal Screen Daily, affiliates of the Iranian and Syrian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah are promoting Fahrenheit 9/11, and Moore’s Middle East distributor, Front Row, is accepting the terrorist assistance: “In terms of marketing the film, Front Row is getting a boost from organizations related to Hezbollah which have rung up from Lebanon to ask if there is anything they can do to support the film. And although [Front Row’s Managing Director Giancarlo] Chacra says he and his company feel strongly that Fahrenheit is not anti-American, but anti-Bush, ‘we can’t go against these organizations as they could strongly boycott the film in Lebanon and Syria.’” (Nancy Tartaglione, “Fahrenheit to be first doc released theatrically in Middle East,” Screen Daily.com, June 9, 2004. The story is discussed in Samantha Ellis, “Fahrenheit 9/11 gets help offer from Hezbollah,” The Guardian (London), June 17, 2004.) Slate.com (6/24/04) followed up on the story, and reported: “Gianluca Chacra, the managing director of Front Row Entertainment, the movie’s distributor in the United Arab Emirates, confirms that Lebanese student members of Hezbollah ‘have asked us if there’s any way they could support the film.’ Chacra was unfazed, even excited, about their offer. ‘Having the support of such an entity in Lebanon is quite significant for that market and not at all controversial. I think it’s quite natural.’” Do you think it’s patriotic to accept help from a terrorist organization which has killed and kidnapped hundreds of Americans, which works with al Qaeda and other terrorists, and which is currently aiding the killing of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians? American patriotism can include presenting honest arguments against a particular American military policy. Hateriotism is the spreading of vicious lies against American soldiers and in favor of tyrants. It’s not unpatriotic to criticize a war or particular wartime policies. But how many patriots do you know who take aid from terrorists who kill Americans? This essay comes from the Independence Institute, a think- tank in Colorado which is founded on the principles of the Declaration of Independence (www.independenceinstitute. org). The author, Dave Kopel, is a life-long Democrat who endorsed and voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. He supports some but not all aspects of the current war on terror.
The fascinating thing about american politics is how polarised it is.
Left and Right can't even agree on what the 9-11 commission said! FNC for example is adamant that the conclusion was that there was a link between Al Qaida and Iraq while the left says there was no link at all.
Somehow there seems to be very little common ground.
However I think America is up for a massive shift to the right as recent events indicate (HRClinton reaching out to the pro life lot, Liebermann gaining support)
I don't even think that abortion would be a topic in Europe, maybe in Poland or Ireland, but give them another 10 years and things will change.
Funny little country America is. That funny mixture of entrenched moralist values and 16 year-olds with fake boobs and nose jobs.
Comments
other updates: thanks to salvo there is a cv of Paolo Barilla in the Minardiclopaedia, there will also be a shinji nakano one soon, have to do a little more research on him though
i finally found the code that generates the automated email when you use the contact form. the text of that email was German which always triggered an outcry from the recipient "i have to tell you that I don't speak Danish" which was extremely annoying for me. Now i've found it and changed it to english, thanks god.
:D
fuerza minardi
Bloody aussies, Quig's right in the end when he talks about these ferign devils :spank:
Roberto-Juan roolz :cool:
[Edited on 8/2/2005 by yokosuna]
BTW - Minardus - I had a great time in both Madrid, Nerja/Malaga region and Catqalan...why can't you people all get along?
Enough Cava and I could get the Israelis and the palestinians singing together!
The temprament !!!
I just cannot understand him!
Consider this exchange at Friday's Tampa event, where a woman (whose question was somehow not transcribed by the White House) asked how the private accounts would fix "the red problem." She was referring to Bush's snazzy charts illustrating what he said was Social Security's "red ink."
Here's Bush's response, in its entirety:
"Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more likely to be -- or closer delivered to what has been promised.
Funny? or just plain appalling that someone who is trying to change the world can't express ideas lucidly!
This aussie doesn't always agree with the French, but if Bush won't hear criticism at home, the Aussies, the French, the Germans, the English, and others will have to say it straight.
The problem is he won't understand!
Is the US conducting classes in Bush speak?
[Edited on 9/2/2005 by Dr_Spin]
Since he will not understand or listen to criticism we can only wait till his 4 years are up and hope that Jeb Bush doesn't make a run.
All in all he is better than his previous rivals but that says little if anything.
Thank God Condi speaks English.
I think you and I disagree about Clinton's abilitiies.
Bill was/is an eloqent speaker, who also had a brain.
Of course he saw differences and nuances that most us didn't, like when sex isn't sex, but in my view that is almost inconsequential when compared with Bush's blunders.
Condi? Wait and see, I would say.
If someone of Powells stature couldn't stand up to Bush, will a nervous young apprentice?
Still, .... Bush and Condi's unbelievable luck continues!
What will happen when the shit finally hits the fan in the Whitehouse bubble?
I'd say there are a lot of stories yet to be told!
The reality check must be coming!
..by the way "Gong Xi Fa Cai" everyone, or at least to the 2 billion who uinderstand CNY.
He could talk the pants off - well maybe I should say the thong off just about anybody.
He was and still is great with words but policy? Thats another story for another time.
However, I don't know if you saw him at the Stupid Bowl - I mean the Super Bowl but he does not look too well. I know he had the heart surgery and all but he still does not look like he is 100%.
Clown - I am not on anything. I had to support him in order to keep that lunatic kerry as far from the White house as possible.
Yoko - you will be re programmed and your Bushenglish lesssons will begin soon.
I'll be bak! Pull die thong, fraulein! Now suk and then vote for Arnie
Now I think the bloke is a complete asshole and some of the facts that Moore brings up are very disturbing and true (or else he would have been sued by now), however I have to agree with RJ on this one....I genuinely think this film is nothing short of total character assassination. Moore is really dumb. He has come up with some very valid points but he loses those valid points by editing the piece with such bias it's almost venomous....
Moore was his own worst enemy making this film. Had he kept his valid points and tried to offer viewpoints from both sides he would, in my opinion, have cost GW Bush a lot more than a headache.
Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 911
by David Kopel
Independence Institute
If all you know is what the mainstream media tell you, then you
are living in a world of illusions. But you can’t free your mind if
you merely replace one set of manipulative illusions with another
set of manipulative illusions. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a twisted,
dishonest, paranoid, and hateful fantasy. Learn the facts, and
make up your own mind.
The list below is a summary of a much longer report, which is
available for free at www.davekopel.org. The report also discusses
many other issues about the movie.
There are lots of good reasons why people have chosen to vote
against (or for) the re-election of George Bush. And there are
lots of good reasons why patriotic Americans have decided to
oppose (or support) the war in Iraq. One thing that all the good
reasons have in common is that they are based on facts. In a
democracy, we should try to convince our fellow citizens with
facts and logical reasoning. To manipulate people with frauds
and propaganda is to attack democracy itself.
1.
The Gore “victory” rally isn’t celebrating a Florida win. It
was held before the polls had even opened.
2.
Like all the other networks, Fox mistakenly said that Gore
had won in Florida. The first network to retract the Florida
mistake was CBS, not Fox.
3.
A 6-month study by a consortium of major newspapers
shows that Bush would have won the Florida recount under
any of the terms which Gore sought in his lawsuits.
4.
Investigation by the Palm Beach Post and others shows
that race was not a reason why election officials mistakenly
disqualified some voters because they were incorrectly
thought to have felony convictions.
5.
Bush’s Presidency before 9/11 was not in serious trouble.
No commentator said that he looked like a lame-duck president.
Congress had passed his #1 bill (the tax cut) and was
on the way to passing his #2 bill (the education bill). The
scene at the end of the movie in which Bush tells a rich audience
“I call you my base,” was from an October 2000 charity
fund-raiser. Both Gore and Bush spoke at the fund-raiser
and, as is the custom at the fund-raiser, made fun of themselves.
6.
“In his first eight months in office before September
11th, George W. Bush was on vacation, according to the
Washington Post, forty-two percent of the time.” As the
Washington Post reported, the figure includes weekends, and
includes time in “vacation locations” such as Camp David,
where Bush was working—as when he met with Tony Blair.
7.
In the golf course scene (about the middle of the movie),
Bush had just heard about a terrorist attack on Israel. He
called the press together to make a quick statement condemning
the terrorism against Israel. He was not speaking
about attacks on the United States.
8.
There is no evidence that Bush did not read the Aug. 6,
2001 Presidential Daily Briefing about al Qaeda.
9.
He never claimed that the title’s “vagueness” was an
excuse for not reading it.
10.
The Briefing did not say “said that Osama bin Laden was
planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes.” It said
that the FBI has “not been able to corroborate” such a threat.
11.
The Saudis left the U.S. only after air travel was opened
for the general public.
12.
According to Richard Clarke and the September 11
Commission, Clarke personally approved the Saudi departures,
and the decision went no higher in the chain of command.
13.
Moore lied to a TV reporter in claiming that Fahrenheit
discloses Clarke’s decision to the audience. Clarke called the
Saudi exit material in Fahrenheit a “mistake” by Moore.
14.
Contrary to what Fahrenheit claims, the September 11
Commission found that many Saudis were asked “detailed
questions” before being allowed to leave.
15.
James Bath did not invest bin Laden family money
in Bush’s energy company Arbusto. He invested his own
money.
13952 Denver West Parkway • Suite 400 • Golden, Colorado 80401-3119
www.IndependenceInstitute.org • 303-279-6536 • 303-279-4176 fax
16.
Bath’s name was blacked-out from an Alabama National
Guard record released by the White House—as required by
federal law, which prohibits the disclosure of health-related
personal information.
17.
Prince Bandar has way too much influence on the U.S.
government, as Fahrenheit shows, but American coddling of
the Saudi tyranny is a long-standing bi-partisan tradition, not
a Bush invention.
18.
Harken Energy: Bush only sold the stock after company
lawyers told him it was OK.
19.
The reason that Bush “beat the rap” was because there
was no evidence he had engaged in insider trading.
20.
The Carlyle Group is not a Bush playground. Many Bush
opponents are investors, including George Soros.
21.
The Bush administration dealt Carlyle a huge financial
blow by canceling the Crusader, one of the few weapons
cancellations in the Bush administration.
22.
The bin Ladens dropped out of Carlyle before the stock
sale. Of the 1.4 billion that the Saudis invested in companies
with Bush connections, the vast majority of the money was
invested in Carlyle before George H.W. Bush joined the firm.
23.
Craig Unger claims that the Saudis have $860 billion
invested in the U.S. The figure appears in his book House of
Bush, House of Saud, but neither of Unger’s cited sources
support such a large figure.
24.
Moore claims that the Saudis “own 7% of America.”
But even if you believe Unger’s fictitious $860 billion figure,
the Saudis own only about 7% of total foreign investment
in America, which is over 10 trillion dollars. Only if all of
America were owned by foreigners could Moore’s claim be
correct.
25.
The Saudi embassy does not receive special protection.
It is not the only foreign embassy which is guarded by the
U.S.
Secret Service. An international treaty signed by the
U.S.
requires the U.S. to protect any embassy which asks for
protection.
26. Moore’s insinuation that Bush runs U.S. foreign policy
according to Saudi instructions is contradicted by the
Afghanistan invasion (which toppled the Taliban regime
which the Saudis strongly supported), and by the Iraq War
(which the Saudis opposed, in part because Iraqi oil will
compete with Saudi oil).
27.
As Governor of Texas, Bush never met with Taliban representatives.
28.
The proposed Unocal pipeline was supported by the
Clinton administration, but Unocal abandoned the pipeline
idea in 1998.
29.
The new Afghani government has signed a protocol to
build a pipeline, but it is an entirely different pipeline, in a
location hundreds of miles distant from the Unocal proposal.
30.
Construction has not begun on the new pipeline.
Although Moore claims that “Enron stood to benefit” from
the pipeline, Enron has never had any participation in either
pipeline.
31.
The Bush administration did not “welcome” Taliban diplomats
in March 2001, but instead condemned them for failing
to hand over Osama bin Laden.
32.
Despite Moore’s pose in the movie, he opposed the
Afghanistan War, and—in December 2002—claimed that
Osama bin Laden might be innocent.
33.
In claiming that the Afghanistan invasion was a mere
ruse to protect the Saudis, Moore omits the results of liberation
in Afghanistan: destruction of al Qaeda training camps,
the creation of free elections, more freedom for women, and
the homecoming of 1.5 million refugees from the Taliban.
34.
The various quotes about Bush administration cooperation
with the September 11 Commission have been re-
sequenced to create a false impression.
In July 2003, Chairman Kean complained about lack of
cooperation. In February 2004, Bush said that the White
House had given extraordinary cooperation. Kean agreed,
and praised the White House for providing “unprecedented”
access.
35.
John Ashcroft didn’t really lose a Senate election to a
“dead guy.” Mel Carnahan died in a plane crash a few weeks
before the election, and the Missouri Governor had promised
to appoint Carnahan’s widow Jean Carnahan if voters
pulled the lever for Mel Carnahan.
36.
The FBI did not “know” about al Qaeda suspects who
were attending flight training schools. The information was
never passed above the level of one field office.
37.
Ashcroft did not cut overall counter-terrorism funding.
He only proposed a one-year cut in a particular program that
already had two years of unspent money.
Page 2
38.
Rep. Porter Goss says he has an “800 number,” and the
Fahrenheit caption says “He’s lying.” Goss does have a toll-
free number, although the prefix is 877.
39.
Moore say Saddam’s Iraq “had never murdered a single
American citizen.” In fact, Saddam paid for terrorist bombers
in Israel who murdered Americans, along with people of
other nationalities. Saddam also sheltered the American-kill-
ing terrorist Abu Nidal, and the bomb-maker for the 1993
World Trade Center bombings.
40.
In addition, Saddam ordered assassination attempts
against former President Bush and against U.S. diplomats in
the Philippines.
41.
Moore claims that the Saddam regime “never threatened
to attack the United States.” In fact, in 1997 the regime
publicly ordered: “American and British interests, embassies,
and naval ships in the Arab region should be the targets of
military operations and commando attacks by Arab political
forces.” On the first anniversary of September 11, Saddam's
regime called for suicide attacks on Americans.
42.
Moore claims that there was no connection between
Iraq and al Qaeda. In fact, there is an extensive record of
collaboration although—as the September 11 Commission
announced—there is no proof that Saddam participated
beforehand in al Qaeda attacks on America.
43.
Fahrenheit shows Condoleezza Rice saying, “Oh, indeed
there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11.” The
audience laughs derisively. Here is what Rice really said on
Nov. 28, 2003:
"Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened
on 9/11. It’s not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself
and his regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think about
what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that
lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York.
This is a great terrorist, international terrorist network that
is determined to defeat freedom. It has perverted Islam
from a peaceful religion into one in which they call on it
for violence. And they’re all linked. And Iraq is a central
front because, if and when, and we will, we change the
nature of Iraq to a place that is peaceful and democratic
and prosperous in the heart of the Middle East, you will
begin to change the Middle East...."
44. Moore portrays pre-liberation Iraq as a happy nation
of kite-flying and weddings. In fact, a sixth of the population
had fled Saddam’s tyranny. The United Nations and
Amnesty International condemned “the systematic, widespread
and extremely grave violations of human rights and
of international humanitarian law by the Government of
Iraq, resulting in an all-pervasive repression and oppression
sustained by broad-based discrimination and widespread terror.’’
45.
The only Iraqi casualties which Moore shows are civilians,
although military casualties far outnumbered civilian.
46.
When showing pictures of buildings being blown up,
Moore does not reveal that many of them were military
buildings, and civilians were never allowed anywhere near
them.
47.
A humorous sequence making fun of tiny countries in the
Iraq liberation Coalition does not even mention the major
countries in the Coalition, such as the U.K., Australia, Italy,
and Japan.
Not a deceit, but mean-spirited and exploitive: The footage
of the funeral of U.S. Air Force Maj. Gregory Stone at
Arlington National Cemetery appears without his family's
permission, and over their vehement objection. Major Stone
strongly believed in the Iraq mission, as does his family.
The footage of Massachusetts National Guardsman Peter
Damon, who is undergoing therapy at Walter Reed Army
Medical Center is also used without his permission.
48.
Despite Moore’s claims, American media have not been
mindlessly supportive of the Iraq war. For example, Peter
Jennings has been extremely critical. The evidence that
Moore offers to portray Jennings as a war supporter is a clip
of Jennings reporting in April 2003 that Saddam’s army had
collapsed—which was true.
49.
The scene of American soldiers making fun of a man
underneath a sheet is not torture of a prisoner of war. They
are making fun of a drunk who passed out in the street.
50.
Moore reports that Bush proposed closing some
Veteran’s hospitals. But he also proposed opening other
veteran’s hospitals.
51.
Bush once opposed renewing a special bonus of $75/
month for soldiers in “imminent danger zones.” Moore
claims that Bush proposed cutting combat soldiers’ pay by
1/3; but a soldier's pay and benefits is over $27,000 per year,
even at low enlisted grades.
52.
While making false claims about a Bush pay cut, Moore
omits the fact that Bush sought and won a 3.7% military pay
raise in 2003.
Page 3
53.
Moore claims that only one Congressman has a child in
Iraq. Actually, two do. (Democratic Senator Tim Johnson of
S.D., and Republican Rep. Duncan Hunter of California.)
Also, John Ashcroft has a son on a naval ship in the Persian
Gulf.
54.
Fahrenheit deceptively cut the footage of Rep. Mark
Kennedy to make it look like Kennedy rebuffed Moore’s
request to help enlist Congressional children. In fact,
Kennedy said it was a good idea, and offered to help.
55.
Fahrenheit shows Rep. Michael Castle walking past
Moore. But Rep. Castle is childless.
56.
Based on Census Bureau data, Congressional families are
more likely than other families to have children serving in
Iraq.
57.
Moore calls Flint, Michigan, “my hometown.” In fact,
he grew up in Davison, a much wealthier and much whiter
suburb.
58.
In Fahrenheit, Moore pretends to support our troops.
But in fact, he supports the enemy in Iraq-the coalition of
Saddam loyalists, al Qaeda operatives, and terrorists controlled
by Iran or Syria-who are united in their desire to
murder Iraqis, and to destroy any possibility of democracy in
Iraq. Here is what Moore said on April 14, 2004, about the
forces who are killing Americans and trying to impose totalitarian
rule on Iraq: “The Iraqis who have risen up against
the occupation are not ‘insurgents’ or ‘terrorists’ or ‘The
Enemy.’ They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and
their numbers will grow—and they will win.” Do you really
think that someone who wants Iraq to be ruled by Islamist or
Ba’athist tyranny, and who deliberately kills innocent civilians
with car bombs, is like the American Minutemen?
59.
As reported in the trade journal Screen Daily, affiliates
of the Iranian and Syrian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah
are promoting Fahrenheit 9/11, and Moore’s Middle East
distributor, Front Row, is accepting the terrorist assistance:
“In terms of marketing the film, Front Row is getting a boost
from organizations related to Hezbollah which have rung up
from Lebanon to ask if there is anything they can do to support
the film. And although [Front Row’s Managing Director
Giancarlo] Chacra says he and his company feel strongly that
Fahrenheit is not anti-American, but anti-Bush, ‘we can’t go
against these organizations as they could strongly boycott the
film in Lebanon and Syria.’” (Nancy Tartaglione, “Fahrenheit
to be first doc released theatrically in Middle East,” Screen
Daily.com, June 9, 2004. The story is discussed in Samantha
Ellis, “Fahrenheit 9/11 gets help offer from Hezbollah,” The
Guardian (London), June 17, 2004.)
Slate.com (6/24/04) followed up on the story, and reported:
“Gianluca Chacra, the managing director of Front Row
Entertainment, the movie’s distributor in the United Arab
Emirates, confirms that Lebanese student members of
Hezbollah ‘have asked us if there’s any way they could support
the film.’ Chacra was unfazed, even excited, about their
offer. ‘Having the support of such an entity in Lebanon is
quite significant for that market and not at all controversial.
I think it’s quite natural.’”
Do you think it’s patriotic to accept help from a terrorist
organization which has killed and kidnapped hundreds of
Americans, which works with al Qaeda and other terrorists,
and which is currently aiding the killing of American soldiers
and Iraqi civilians? American patriotism can include presenting
honest arguments against a particular American military
policy. Hateriotism is the spreading of vicious lies against
American soldiers and in favor of tyrants.
It’s not unpatriotic to criticize a war or particular wartime
policies. But how many patriots do you know who take aid
from terrorists who kill Americans?
This essay comes from the Independence Institute, a think-
tank in Colorado which is founded on the principles of the
Declaration of Independence (www.independenceinstitute.
org). The author, Dave Kopel, is a life-long Democrat who
endorsed and voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. He supports
some but not all aspects of the current war on terror.
Left and Right can't even agree on what the 9-11 commission said! FNC for example is adamant that the conclusion was that there was a link between Al Qaida and Iraq while the left says there was no link at all.
Somehow there seems to be very little common ground.
However I think America is up for a massive shift to the right as recent events indicate (HRClinton reaching out to the pro life lot, Liebermann gaining support)
I don't even think that abortion would be a topic in Europe, maybe in Poland or Ireland, but give them another 10 years and things will change.
Funny little country America is. That funny mixture of entrenched moralist values and 16 year-olds with fake boobs and nose jobs.