›
Existing Users: Because of an update to the forum software you will need to reset your password. Please use the "Forgot?" link on the sign in form to do so. If that doesn't work, send me an email at feedback@forzaminardi.com and I'll sort you out!

STR and Red Bull Chassis

DoubleD
in ForzaMinardi.com Forum
Very interesting news of STR purchasing the 07 Chassis from Red Bull Technologies. It will be interesting to see how far Spyker's objection gets with the FIA. So I guess if the loophole is deemed legal, Aguri and ProDrive will be able to purchase chassis's from the a new company called Honda Technology, LLC. IMHO this is going to become a huge issue in 07.
DD
«1

Comments

  • Ste
    Two teams running exactly the same car.

    Were turning it into Champ car!!!
  • silverghost
    Mateschitz is in with the ruling elites of F1 - he wouldn't be doing it if he didn't have assurances he was going to get away with it. Depressing development indeed.
  • Biker
    I think this sucks. I had a bit of a soft spot for SA, but this doesn't help ............
    And STR .......... ? Well I didn't think high of them anyway! Will the Faenza staff be proud of this development?
  • steamdrivenhammer
    This article from Grandprix.dom attempts to shed light on the RBR - STR situation

    http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17918.html

    Apparantly the chassis for both RBR and STR will be the same but that they are being designed by a "third party" called Red Bull Technology Ltd.

    Red Bull Technology was until mid december called red bull Holdings. Hmmm I can see Spyker protesting this.
  • Stan
    I think this doesn't really matter. It means F1 will become more affordable. And if it's more affordable it's likely that new teams will join. The big teams that really want to make a difference are going to build their own chassis anyway. And there's no one stopping teams to make their own changes to the cars.

    [Edited on 5-1-07 by Stan]
  • forzaminardi
    so what changes is whether they suck because they have Red Bull's old chassis or whether they suck because they have Red Bull's current chassis
  • Petroltorque
    This one's going to arbitration. In which case it willnot matter what assurances have been given as it will be decided by an independent court. Bad news for Red Bull if it goes against them.
  • steamdrivenhammer
    I disagree Stan. More teams cannot join currently. The concorde agreement limits the number of teams and when prodrive joins no-one else can unless they buy a team. It is unlikely teams like spyker, super aguri or Torro Rosso agreeing to change the agreement because they will get less money.

    I wouldn'y mind the rules saying that you can buy another teams chassis providing you build your own within 3 seasons.
  • Murph
    Originally posted by forzaminardi
    so what changes is whether they suck because they have Red Bull's old chassis or whether they suck because they have Red Bull's current chassis

    Adrian Newey........ and the words "chassis" and "sucks" are usually not found together in the same sentence. The STR will have the Ferrari engine while the RB will have Renault power ..... Adrian pushed for the Renault package so I am most curious to see what he (and DC & Weber) does with it.

    ciao
  • forzaminardi

    In which case it willnot matter what assurances have been given as it will be decided by an independent court.
    funny, I always thought of arbitration as being a way for companies to sanctify their shady deals in a secret forum :D
  • silverghost
    There's the law, and there's realpolitik - Spyker will either be browbeaten or bribed into submission, possibly both. That's the FIA way - ask the German and Japanese manufacturers about V8 engines.
  • MinardiP1
    What will Williams make of this?
  • max_torq
    most likely the plans for the 2008 toyota F1 car.

    STR also got handed the ferrari contract due to this connection to RBR not due to any enthusiasm from ferrari. In some way Berger may have wrangled a newey chassis and a ferrari engine contract into faenza, it's a bit crazy actually.
  • Petroltorque
    I'm at a loss. Are you suggesting that Williams will race a Toyota customer chassis?
    While Super Aguri have clearly outsourced the deisgn of their chassis to an independent company, Red Bull are going to race customer chassis. Thats clearly illegal under the present rules. What are the Stewards going to do at scrutineering come Melbourne?
    I'm not as cynical as ghosty though. Yes I'm sure they'll try to placte Spyker with money, but can you see Bernie reaching into his pockets. That means paying off Williams as well as they seem particularly vulnerable as well to a Newy chassis.
    More likely is that they ask the Red Bull teams to forego any points scored, yes that means they may be beaten on the track but at least it won't hurt them financially at year end when the money's divvied out!
  • max_torq
    no, I mean that I'm guessing that toyota will outsource its 2008 chassis to a Williams design company.

    nobody is going to race for no points. It remains to be seen what hondas input has been to Aguris consultants. If both Redbull companies are using the same 'independent' design consultant, is that a problem?

    Considering that the teams will have to develop the cars independently, and some of the lower teams are looking much more competitive, this is better than the recycling chassis such as the jaguar and arrows of last season.

    Perhaps the faenza factory will have their hands full developing the chassis for the ferrari and making it competitive with redbull, knowing they are in with a decent chance at making a points winning car.
  • MinardiP1
    *MCSF rolls over in his grave*
  • Petroltorque
    I can't see Toyota buying a chassis from Williams. They have not produced a competitive chassis since Newey left.
  • Lease
    Welcome to the new world of F1 - Arabs and Super Marketeers.

    The days of car racers died a short while ago. The ones that are left are looking for a way out. Ron looks like he has completed his plans and left himself with a nice little dowry to pursue other interests. My bet is that he will set up firstly a Champ Car team, and then a new road car to leverage himself into the US market with. Frank must be counting the lost Deutchmarks and wondering where his Arab is going to come from. Saudia????

    Notice that you hear absolutely nothing about Bernie any more?
  • Minardus
    Remember way back when Williams was sponsored by Bin Laden?;)
  • DoubleD
    Check out Richard's ( Pro Drive) comments regarding the process of purchasing a chassis. He is claiming to have 3 viable options which is suprising.


    http://www.f1racing.net/en/news/2007/01/12/prodrive_won_t_run_before_december/
  • DoubleD
    Checking out the test times yesterday, Aguri was 2/10's off the fastest time compared to 2 to 3 seconds off last year. Aguri just jumped 6 spots on the grid. Nothing like running a Honda chassis. Poor Spyker. However, it will be fun to watch Sato blitz his way up through the top ten on starts.
  • silverghost
    Customer chassis rules may deliver a short term improvement in "the show" - it closes up the field, and a second division team with a bright young driver will be able to really show their worth.

    The problem is in the longer term, when the pressure builds on those who are not delivering a good chassis. For example, Toyota are under pressure for failing to beat 2 Hondas. If they fail to beat 4 Hondas, and get overtaken by 4 Red Bulls, then they are pretty much last, which won't be tolerated in the Boardroom. 2 years of that and sayonara.

    You also have the fact that supplying a customer team increases the manufacturers total development resource - the development costs, not the manufacturing costs, are the big issue in F1, so the more customers you have the better (hence the comments from Prodrive).

    The development outlay will mean no new manufacturer will enter, and none who have left will return.

    So your business dynamics are set. You start losing manufacturers, and end up with a 4 manufacturer series. Or 3. Or 2. Or....1.

    The teams, not the manufacturers, have been the lifeblood of F1, and they have been made secondary. Brave new world, or recipe for disaster?
  • DoubleD
    Not to drone on about this topic but look at the 1/18 test times at Jerez.

    Aguri 1:19.628
    Renault 1:19.766
    Williams 1:20.059 Renault1:21.029

    Test times are test times. However!
  • Petroltorque
    The mission statement for F1 should be ; Design and build your own car. Unfortunately max Mosely was the man who headed up March in the late 70's, when anyone with a wallet could drive his cars. He seems to applying the same principle to F1 now.
  • Biker
    Checkout SA !!

    Testing times from yesterday at Jerez:

    1. Anthony Davidson Super Aguri 1:19.628
    2. Giancarlo Fisichella Renault 1:19.754
    3. Nico Rosberg Williams 1:20.049
    4. Heikki Kovalainen Renault 1:21.026
  • DoubleD
    It was reported this morning that Team Principles could not reach an agreement last Friday on " customer chassis". Bernie was involved to some degree however nothing came of it. It appears that Spyker continues to clearly have the upper hand and that the issue could be resolved at the Australian GP by the race stewards which would be an interesting event. I am real curious if there are any contingency plans at STR and Aguri if their "new"chassis are deemed illegal besides using the 06 chassis.
  • Biker
    Even more complicating for SA is the fact that they failed to pass the crash test yesterday.
  • viges
    Williams is going to international arbitration; Frank refuses to wait for scruitneering at Albert Park, which is the FIA line.

    Berger's line? See you in court.

    Come on Frankie - do it for the constructors.
  • Petroltorque
    Sir Frank is doing his best to maintain F1 as a technology led sport and not a supermarket sweep.
  • Alloy
    Originally posted by silverghost
    Customer chassis rules may deliver a short term improvement in "the show" - it closes up the field, and a second division team with a bright young driver will be able to really show their worth.

    The problem is in the longer term, when the pressure builds on those who are not delivering a good chassis. For example, Toyota are under pressure for failing to beat 2 Hondas. If they fail to beat 4 Hondas, and get overtaken by 4 Red Bulls, then they are pretty much last, which won't be tolerated in the Boardroom. 2 years of that and sayonara.

    You also have the fact that supplying a customer team increases the manufacturers total development resource - the development costs, not the manufacturing costs, are the big issue in F1, so the more customers you have the better (hence the comments from Prodrive).

    The development outlay will mean no new manufacturer will enter, and none who have left will return.

    So your business dynamics are set. You start losing manufacturers, and end up with a 4 manufacturer series. Or 3. Or 2. Or....1.

    The teams, not the manufacturers, have been the lifeblood of F1, and they have been made secondary. Brave new world, or recipe for disaster?
    Recipe for disaster, this was long forseen when we discovered that Cosworth would not supply any team this season.

    I still doubt anyone will win races (other than by accident) in a Customer chassis and Engine. It's a dead end solution for any team including Pro-Drive.
Sign In or Register to comment.