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Those with a retrospectoscope will note that I predicted the sale of the team to an entrepeneur. What I did not see was that Red Bull would want the team. Its got to be cheaper for Mateschitz to give his driver $5 million to get a seat in the team rather than purchase the team outright. AFAIK RBR will have their hand full dealing with the change to TOIT V8s and designing a new car. The problem I see with this sale is that it looks like Minardi will be become simply a race team. Once you loose the ability to design and build your own chassis you're on a sticky wicket. Oh well. time will tell whether Stoddart does indeed have the interests of the employees at heart.
You aren't wrong yet Petrol, Mateschitz is an entrepeneur. It's just too bad he already owns a team. That's the real problem. It'll be like being a fan of a 'farm club' baseball team, I'm sure there are owned teams in lower classes for soccer in Europe. I just don't know what there is to be a fan of in that scenario. Hooray! another driver/engineer is moving to the big team! No thanks. Without the current strife in the sport I doubt that this would even be allowed to be considered, there are definite competitive advantages for RBR by wholly owning a second team.
Perspective seems to be a rare commodity in this discussion.
Stoddart has consistently said that he would only sell the team if it can be moved forward. He has also said that the jobs of those at Faenza have to be guaranteed. Until he stops saying that, then he should be taken at his word.
Another thing that is being reported is that he doesn't want to get out of F1.
Minardi is not a basket case at the moment, and Stoddart is not in need of money particularly. In fact, sponsors are there is relative abundance, and there is some structure in the team's development.
I think that these things need to be considered when predicting the end of the world.
I would lean more towards an equity deal being the end game, rather than a buyout. This would suit the circumstances of the owner far more than any other likely result. If RBR were to purchase outright, then only a foll would not believe that it would consolidate the two team's back offices; ie, Faenza would be closed by end of this season. Stoddart himself would not be involved because as we all know, he isn't really that skilled in an engineering sense.
So a deal where Dieter-baby gets an equity share in the team and a showcase for his young talent seems the most probable. Sadly, that would mean no Minardi-built chasis for a while, but hey, at least the team at Faenza can develop what they have into something better if they are up to it.
I really can't see Minardi disappearing in this situation. There is only one scenario that I could see happenning that fits the complete sale scenario. That would be where Stoddart sells (with some sort of half-arsed guarantees towards the employees to satisfy his conscience), and buys Judas. I don't think that it is beyond the realms of possibility.
Cheer up girls. At least we can all move to the A1Fans.net board.
Two Post Scripts:
1. Forgot to include the fact that F1 will be producing a lot more revenue for the teams in the near future, which for all intents and purposes, increases the value of a team currently on the grid.
2. Sometimes assumptions can really screw up decent logic.
No-one has actually said that RBR will stay in England, have they?
What if RBR-Ferrari moved to Faenza? Close to Ferrari and we assume that Matesich has no loyalty to England. Could be.
And in that scenario, RBR2 - Team USA could conceivably move all the way to the USA.
all very interesting. Unlike common perception not all of us here in the US feel that Paul is on the level of Bill Gates and the deathstar. I believe him to be a successful business man who at heart has a deep affection for F1 and most certainly Minardi based upon his cash commitment through these past years. Why else whould he stay involved?
Perhaps, just perhaps, he might have the best interest of Minardi and the GCM tradition and dedication to the sport. I suppose we just have to wait and see... Perhaps this weekend is when it will come to fruition.
...and that's a totally self-serving hope since I will be at Spa! :P :P :P :P
oh, and would I be totally bummed out that there was a team USA and an US driver in Scott Speed which would open the doors to F1 in the US? Doors not opend ed sinc eth days of the John Player Special?
well, uh, I suppose not....at least it's not a Korean mfg! (nothing against our brethern F1 fans from Korea, it would be kinda cool to see someone know what the H*** F1 is in the US!)
"It's possible there will be an announcement at Spa, but rumours of Red Bull USA are untrue."
AFAIK that's OK by me. TTFN! :D
EDIT: Stoddart says on Autosport-Atlas that running an RBR1 chassis for 2006 Minardi would be unfeasible, impossible even, as it's not within the Concorde Agreement.
The worst case scenario at the moment seems like we'll be half-heartedly supporting Red Bull-Minardi, with Scott Speed and Toni Liuzzi as our drivers.
Actually, that in itself doesn't sound too bad. But then I've always been optimistic in times of alarm.
Jesus you miss afew days (these kids eat into important activities) and look at the mess we're in!!!!!!!!!!!
From reading all the considered opinions and rantings it seems we have a few possibel outcomes that can be summed up with:
Sponsorship: Good Minority stake: Acceptable depending upon management Buyout: death of team No change: nothing lost nothing gained
Lets hope for some nice fat sponsorship, 1/2 drivers and continued development at Faenza and wait for some announcement.....
However if they want to sponsor or buy a minority share for driver development purposes, who could possibly be ideal to run that operation, I wonder???
It's two secs a lap faster than what we have currently.
Wow, only two seconds faster... with a higher spec engine, more expensive and experienced drivers, Michelin tyres, and a bigger technical base. Notice that RBR haven't bolted a new bit to it since Magny ... its old, obsolete (and ugly).
If RBR want to go forward maybe they should be buying some Minardi IP.
@ Maxtorq, maybe - maybe not. Was just thinking that this would be a good opportunity for one/some of the manufacturers to shore up voting rights at the WMC. They maybe offer PS some assistance in different areas until they get the next Concorde sorted out. If they keep losing teams the the FOM/FIA consortium the manufacturers won't have the strength of numbers to push in areas they need to.
If this hasn't happened already(be surprised if someone hasn't thought of it), it may be a card Paul can play.
I agree with Bernie's last remark. I still think Paul will try to do the best for the team whatever outcome. Until then one can only wait and see...
I know many still cling to the hope that GCM will run the team once more, but let's face it, PS is the best owner (other than GCM) Minardi could possibly hope for. Any other buyer will not care about any of the heritage this team. It will turn into Midland or BMWF1 style. I hope Paul goes in for a sauber type 'B' team deal of the past if anything. At least then we will still have a team to support.
I support Minardi because of who they are. A small group of hard working guys, steeped in a heritage of motor racing, and there because they love motor racing. Sponsors come and go, names change, but people don't. So long as those same people are behind the scenes and still put in the effort to go racing every second weekend, whether it be Minardi, Team USA, Stoddart F1 or whatever, I’ll be there waving a flag.
I feel there are alot of people in Faenza who read this forum, see you guys at the races and feel proud of what they do. If the worst was to happen and RBR buy out the Minardi name, wouldn't it be a double blow to have us abandon them as fans? I say, whatever happens we don't let those guys down.
Dr Spin, and I was very much looking forward to our rugby in the mud:D
I hope my sense of humor ihas been taken in the right vein...I was really hoping you could make it so I could buy you a few to make up for some of the miscommunication at teh Pub... but, afterall, the Pub, is the Pub, all bar talk.
"Never one to bash a performer, I support both Stoddie and Bernie in most things they say and do. "
BTW, which Bernie where you refering to? I'm not sure if you realize it or not but there's this other named bernie running around F1:rolleyes:
.....BTW, which Bernie where you refering to? I'm not sure if you realize it or not but there's this other named bernie running around F1:rolleyes:
Long time since the other one did much running around. More likely he will be stomping up and down the paddock with a paranoid look on his face or just checking that everyone there has paid. :) Spin
Comments
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing"
Oscar Wilde
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=25761
AFAIK RBR will have their hand full dealing with the change to TOIT V8s and designing a new car.
The problem I see with this sale is that it looks like Minardi will be become simply a race team.
Once you loose the ability to design and build your own chassis you're on a sticky wicket. Oh well. time will tell whether Stoddart does indeed have the interests of the employees at heart.
RBR = Red Bull Racing
TOIT =???
Can someone help me with the two other acronyms??
RBR - correct
TOIT - The Other Italian Team ... you know... The Othe Italian Team. We don't use the "F" word around here.
Perspective seems to be a rare commodity in this discussion.
Stoddart has consistently said that he would only sell the team if it can be moved forward. He has also said that the jobs of those at Faenza have to be guaranteed. Until he stops saying that, then he should be taken at his word.
Another thing that is being reported is that he doesn't want to get out of F1.
Minardi is not a basket case at the moment, and Stoddart is not in need of money particularly. In fact, sponsors are there is relative abundance, and there is some structure in the team's development.
I think that these things need to be considered when predicting the end of the world.
I would lean more towards an equity deal being the end game, rather than a buyout. This would suit the circumstances of the owner far more than any other likely result. If RBR were to purchase outright, then only a foll would not believe that it would consolidate the two team's back offices; ie, Faenza would be closed by end of this season. Stoddart himself would not be involved because as we all know, he isn't really that skilled in an engineering sense.
So a deal where Dieter-baby gets an equity share in the team and a showcase for his young talent seems the most probable. Sadly, that would mean no Minardi-built chasis for a while, but hey, at least the team at Faenza can develop what they have into something better if they are up to it.
I really can't see Minardi disappearing in this situation. There is only one scenario that I could see happenning that fits the complete sale scenario. That would be where Stoddart sells (with some sort of half-arsed guarantees towards the employees to satisfy his conscience), and buys Judas. I don't think that it is beyond the realms of possibility.
Cheer up girls. At least we can all move to the A1Fans.net board.
Two Post Scripts:
1. Forgot to include the fact that F1 will be producing a lot more revenue for the teams in the near future, which for all intents and purposes, increases the value of a team currently on the grid.
2. Sometimes assumptions can really screw up decent logic.
No-one has actually said that RBR will stay in England, have they?
What if RBR-Ferrari moved to Faenza? Close to Ferrari and we assume that Matesich has no loyalty to England. Could be.
And in that scenario, RBR2 - Team USA could conceivably move all the way to the USA.
[Edited on 7/9/2005 by Lease]
Perhaps, just perhaps, he might have the best interest of Minardi and the GCM tradition and dedication to the sport. I suppose we just have to wait and see... Perhaps this weekend is when it will come to fruition.
...and that's a totally self-serving hope since I will be at Spa! :P :P :P :P
well, uh, I suppose not....at least it's not a Korean mfg! (nothing against our brethern F1 fans from Korea, it would be kinda cool to see someone know what the H*** F1 is in the US!)
Do the team principal's hold any voting powers in relation to the World Motorsport Council?
Hmm, Oz, are you thinking this is some plot by Mosley/Eccles/TOIT/RBR to eliminate Stoddarts opposition to the new concorde?
[Edited on 8/9/2005 by max_torq]
All independant teams are with Bernie....although Williams is a question mark.
And we are not a manufacturer. Unfortunately we hold the least favourable position in all of this.
If anything, this could be our final straw, regardless of how it goes.
"It's possible there will be an announcement at Spa, but rumours of Red Bull USA are untrue."
AFAIK that's OK by me. TTFN! :D
EDIT: Stoddart says on Autosport-Atlas that running an RBR1 chassis for 2006 Minardi would be unfeasible, impossible even, as it's not within the Concorde Agreement.
The worst case scenario at the moment seems like we'll be half-heartedly supporting Red Bull-Minardi, with Scott Speed and Toni Liuzzi as our drivers.
Actually, that in itself doesn't sound too bad. But then I've always been optimistic in times of alarm.
[Edited on 8/9/2005 by MarkIII]
From reading all the considered opinions and rantings it seems we have a few possibel outcomes that can be summed up with:
Sponsorship: Good
Minority stake: Acceptable depending upon management
Buyout: death of team
No change: nothing lost nothing gained
Lets hope for some nice fat sponsorship, 1/2 drivers and continued development at Faenza and wait for some announcement.....
However if they want to sponsor or buy a minority share for driver development purposes, who could possibly be ideal to run that operation, I wonder???
Answers on a post card
If RBR want to go forward maybe they should be buying some Minardi IP.
If this hasn't happened already(be surprised if someone hasn't thought of it), it may be a card Paul can play.
I know many still cling to the hope that GCM will run the team once more, but let's face it, PS is the best owner (other than GCM) Minardi could possibly hope for. Any other buyer will not care about any of the heritage this team. It will turn into Midland or BMWF1 style. I hope Paul goes in for a sauber type 'B' team deal of the past if anything. At least then we will still have a team to support.
Anyway, good luck to the boys this weekend in SPA
Forza Minardi!
I support Minardi because of who they are. A small group of hard working guys, steeped in a heritage of motor racing, and there because they love motor racing. Sponsors come and go, names change, but people don't. So long as those same people are behind the scenes and still put in the effort to go racing every second weekend, whether it be Minardi, Team USA, Stoddart F1 or whatever, I’ll be there waving a flag.
I feel there are alot of people in Faenza who read this forum, see you guys at the races and feel proud of what they do. If the worst was to happen and RBR buy out the Minardi name, wouldn't it be a double blow to have us abandon them as fans? I say, whatever happens we don't let those guys down.
Forza ???
(and it's good to know that every once in a while I say something that someone agrees with :D )
I can now confirm (sob!) that I won't be at Spa this weekend.
Too much else to do here to get away this month.
So Bernie, please give my regards to the team, as I know you will for MCSF, and have a beer for me,
Hope that it's a great race, and the WDC competition survives to a cliffhanging finish at the end of season, with Minardi to win more points.
Spin
I hope my sense of humor ihas been taken in the right vein...I was really hoping you could make it so I could buy you a few to make up for some of the miscommunication at teh Pub... but, afterall, the Pub, is the Pub, all bar talk.
"Never one to bash a performer, I support both Stoddie and Bernie in most things they say and do. "
BTW, which Bernie where you refering to? I'm not sure if you realize it or not but there's this other named bernie running around F1:rolleyes:
Stoddart: "Probably 50/50..."
More likely he will be stomping up and down the paddock with a paranoid look on his face or just checking that everyone there has paid.
:)
Spin