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I was kinda wondering that too...... I was thinking that maybe the TJ goes by another designation to 'customers'?????(even though Red Bull are also really just a customer, truth be told)
What's this CR6 crap?
However, several online articles at various sites have said the engine is the same as Red Bull, so I dunno. :rolleyes:
The Cosworth Formula One engine for the start of 2005 is the TJ2005 Series 10. This is a development of the TJ2004 Series 8 as used by Jaguar Racing Ltd & Jordan Grand Prix at the end of 2004.
It is possible that the engine also is called CR6. Since this years Cosworth engine is only a development from last years (and not a completly new one), it is practically the same as last year. There for the this years engine is still a CR6.
This is also from Cosworth's site:
The TJ2005 Series 10 engine will race for the first time in the Red Bull Racing RB1 at Melbourne GP & also in the new Minardi PS05 from San Marino GP onwards. This will deliver a peak power improvement of 100BHP & double the engine life over the CK2004 (or CR-3L) engine currently utilised in the existing Minardi PS-04B chassis.
Monocoques are extremely expensive to make and with our resources could we afford to design a whole new one for it to fail the crash test?
Even if it was all new, it is not the key part of the car when it comes to aerodynamics and generating downforce and it is the rear end that has really let us down in this respect over the last couple of years.
The assymetry on the engine cover is a common feature on most cars. Although some do put dummy ones on the otherside we will have to wait and see if we put one on.
I just hope it is easy to setup for the drivers and a bit more steady in the corners than the PS04!!
It's way too early to draw any conclusions performance wise. The only thing to comment on is how it looks, and I'd say it looks great. The parts which are new anyway, looks pretty obvious it's a bolt up between a PS04b and a newly designed and manufactured rear though. Unless they ran out of paint.
Fingers crossed we'll be racing for real once the bugs are worked out.
I just hope it is easy to setup for the drivers and a bit more steady in the corners than the PS04
From what I saw the car looked a lot more stable under braking, although we might assume that Christijan was not driving to the limits. He drove 3 or 4 laps and came in again, to come out after about 20 minutes. This scedulle was repeted all through the day.
I'll put my two cents in and say that it is a PS05 front end. But again, the only gaines they can get are from the front wing so it probably isn't that important.
I still think that there will be a new front wing.
Also the shot on the other thread of the Ps05 diving sows just how the rear end is a lot lower than previous designs.
Looking at the car closely, it looks like the PS04b with new sidepod geometry and different cooling ducts. The front wing is the same. That surprises me. With new aero regs stipulating a higher wing I thought they would have tried the wave geometry for this critical area. There really are a lot of questions. How much of the team's resources were spent on adapting the chassis to a new engine and how much was left over for aero work Everyone's talking about it was only a shakedown but the team ran over 200 clicks. At what stage do we say that its no longer a setup problem and is now a development problem? I hope the design team have made a betther job on this car and have learnt the lessons of '03.
Steve's pics of the front end show nothing in terms of similarity. And you cannot look at wings - they probably have a dozen different designs to try on the car, front and back. You can't tell anything on the generation of the car from the wing. You should be looking at suspension pickup points, overall geometry, etc You can see the turning vanes are different, for instance. Wings change for every track, wings mean NOTHING.
Too right, far too much downbeat talk on here. That car is just beautiful (until some fool paints the sidepods and the sides of the nose white).
And for the fools who would draw conclusions from shakedown times, I think it is safe to assume Rubens was closer to the limit on the fastest of his 80 odd laps than CA was on the best of his 39, and a 4 and a half second gap over an 80 second lap would already be enough to see of those yellow shitboxes.
I can't wait for the rest of this season, to see if we can actually finish 9th in the constructors (or even better, if we get a lucky result). And I am looking forward to seeing two competent drivers try to prove themselves. And maybe not being last will help with the business side of things.
Quig had to defend hinself very robustly some months ago, and where are those nay-sayers now? Why, they're pulling the car to bits, that's where.
So the thing LOOKS kind of OK in parts. It doesn't have quite so bulky sidepods (still too bulky for mine, though), and it looks a bit tidier on the sides and rear end.
What is really important though, is clearly the chassis balance and the way it puts that power down. We suspected that ever since the changes were made to accept the flying giraffe, that there were issues with the weight distribution, fuel tank size and location, etc. I sincerely hope that these things have been corrected.
If we could just have a PS02 with a really powerful engine (all relative to contemporaries of course) then mid-field would be a reality.
By the way; I also think that something is going on with that engine cover.
Almost forgot, what the HELL is going on with those chimneys??!!?? OK, they're angled over and will probably develop some downforce but the bloody aspect ratio is tiny by comparison to Toyota. Weird as. They are bigger even than those over-size exhaust fairings. Those two bits look just wrong.
I'm verry happy with the new car. Not being technical I just enjoy the looks of the car. In a way it looks 'simple'. And I think that's good. I wish the PS05 all the best and pray for quick times at Imola. I can't imagine a new car to have no problems the next races, but hope with all of my heart that it will give the team the confidence that the future is looking bright.
Regards Lease's point on cooling ducts. Looks like they took the concept off the 04 TOIT. One assumes that as TOIT run their windtunnel 24/7 its worth a look. Some have noed that Minardi cut the deficit to Jordan in Bahrein to 0.7 s. Methinks they were already running parts on the 04B. As to where we will be with respect to Jordan, its worth noting that James Allen said that McQuillan and Co are already starting to through bits at their car to find more speed. What really interests me is where Minardi are relative to RBR.
The new nose seems to resemble McClaren's a touch, it seems thinner and sharper, though we may have seen a version of it on the PS04.
The sidepod are marvelous, and really show a lot of work. There's also some funnies with the engine cowling, which could be tricks of the light. I do wonder if that is the final cowling, or if there's a bit more to come. exhausts look a bit dangerous and unfinished, but do look aggressive.
Initial times against Ferrari look promising, given that this was really a shakedown run.
Friday setups at Imola will give us a better idea, though I hope they play possum, run race quantity fuel and maximize setup potential.
I can't see the images! :-( I think there are more people who are having troubles with photobucket.com. Can someone send them to my emailaddress please? Thanks.
Comments
What's this CR6 crap?
However, several online articles at various sites have said the engine is the same as Red Bull, so I dunno. :rolleyes:
This is also from Cosworth's site:
TJ2005 Series 10 Specification
Configuration: V10
Vee angle: 90
Number of valves: 40
Capacity: 2998cc
Maximum engine speed: 18,300rpm
Construction: Aluminium cylinder block and heads, cast in Cosworth’s own foundry. Aluminium alloy pistons, steel crankshaft
Engine Electronics: Pi/Cosworth
Spark Plugs: Champion
Weight: 94kg including ballast
Dimensions:
Length: 589mm
Width: 538mm
Height: 454mm
paul stoddart said again and again that they will use EXACTLY the same engine as RBR so I guess that will be the case
Even if it was all new, it is not the key part of the car when it comes to aerodynamics and generating downforce and it is the rear end that has really let us down in this respect over the last couple of years.
The assymetry on the engine cover is a common feature on most cars. Although some do put dummy ones on the otherside we will have to wait and see if we put one on.
I just hope it is easy to setup for the drivers and a bit more steady in the corners than the PS04!!
the car looks fresher of course but I have some questions...
how do the times compare?
also what about the tyres were there any tyres representatives to see the effect of the new car on the tyres?
anyway, this car is breathing fresh air in the team and supporters so FORZA!
Albers 1.26.530
so thats 4.620 of the pace of Ferrari
It's a shakedown, give it a rest.
Fingers crossed we'll be racing for real once the bugs are worked out.
I still think that there will be a new front wing.
Also the shot on the other thread of the Ps05 diving sows just how the rear end is a lot lower than previous designs.
I am getting sweaty palms. Bring on Imola.
There really are a lot of questions. How much of the team's resources were spent on adapting the chassis to a new engine and how much was left over for aero work
Everyone's talking about it was only a shakedown but the team ran over 200 clicks. At what stage do we say that its no longer a setup problem and is now a development problem?
I hope the design team have made a betther job on this car and have learnt the lessons of '03.
Maybe that will be the PS05 nose.
If so, that would be proof the tub is PS04
isn't that the 2002 and start 2003 wing?
[Edited on 17/4/2005 by frenkiespenkie]
Steve's pics of the front end show nothing in terms of similarity. And you cannot look at wings - they probably have a dozen different designs to try on the car, front and back. You can't tell anything on the generation of the car from the wing. You should be looking at suspension pickup points, overall geometry, etc You can see the turning vanes are different, for instance. Wings change for every track, wings mean NOTHING.
And for the fools who would draw conclusions from shakedown times, I think it is safe to assume Rubens was closer to the limit on the fastest of his 80 odd laps than CA was on the best of his 39, and a 4 and a half second gap over an 80 second lap would already be enough to see of those yellow shitboxes.
I can't wait for the rest of this season, to see if we can actually finish 9th in the constructors (or even better, if we get a lucky result). And I am looking forward to seeing two competent drivers try to prove themselves. And maybe not being last will help with the business side of things.
You guys at Imola will be in for a treat.
Quig had to defend hinself very robustly some months ago, and where are those nay-sayers now? Why, they're pulling the car to bits, that's where.
So the thing LOOKS kind of OK in parts. It doesn't have quite so bulky sidepods (still too bulky for mine, though), and it looks a bit tidier on the sides and rear end.
What is really important though, is clearly the chassis balance and the way it puts that power down. We suspected that ever since the changes were made to accept the flying giraffe, that there were issues with the weight distribution, fuel tank size and location, etc. I sincerely hope that these things have been corrected.
If we could just have a PS02 with a really powerful engine (all relative to contemporaries of course) then mid-field would be a reality.
By the way; I also think that something is going on with that engine cover.
Almost forgot, what the HELL is going on with those chimneys??!!?? OK, they're angled over and will probably develop some downforce but the bloody aspect ratio is tiny by comparison to Toyota. Weird as. They are bigger even than those over-size exhaust fairings. Those two bits look just wrong.
[Edited on 17/4/2005 by Lease]
I can't imagine a new car to have no problems the next races, but hope with all of my heart that it will give the team the confidence that the future is looking bright.
Some have noed that Minardi cut the deficit to Jordan in Bahrein to 0.7 s. Methinks they were already running parts on the 04B.
As to where we will be with respect to Jordan, its worth noting that James Allen said that McQuillan and Co are already starting to through bits at their car to find more speed.
What really interests me is where Minardi are relative to RBR.
The sidepod are marvelous, and really show a lot of work. There's also some funnies with the engine cowling, which could be tricks of the light. I do wonder if that is the final cowling, or if there's a bit more to come. exhausts look a bit dangerous and unfinished, but do look aggressive.
Initial times against Ferrari look promising, given that this was really a shakedown run.
Friday setups at Imola will give us a better idea, though I hope they play possum, run race quantity fuel and maximize setup potential.
Marc
Found these pictures on the Albers forum.....more I can't tell you about
[Edited on 19/4/2005 by ronaldinho2005]
And white sidepods.
[Edited on 19/4/2005 by vuurmuur]